deedragongirl ^^ But don't you think that those comments you wrote are horrible.

DarkSarcasm Ugh. Don't even bother, guys. This creature is trying to provoke, not engage in a civilized debate. It's not our responsibility to explain anything to a person who doesn't want to understand. They know what they're saying, and they know how they're saying it. Ignore it and get back to the issue at hand: Elsa.

audreygrace412 I just want to say that it should be more possible to hear an opinion you don't like and think someone is wrong on that subject without insulting them or calling them a bad person. There are about 79 countries still on Earth that range from laws against “propaganda of homosexuality" to punishment by death for LGBT people. The people who live in those countries are indoctrinated with beliefs that homosexuality etc. is a sin as the original article here mentioned. Calling people names and asserting that your morals are more legitimate than theirs aren't efficient arguments nor will they help represent any religion nor the LGBT movement or the religious or LGBT people in those countries as it will only further negative stereotypes on both sides. I wish people were more open to actually understanding each other rather than rushing to attack each other. [b]Degrading someone else's character doesn't strengthen your own argument.[/b] I say this because it's likely more LGBT or other controversial topics could come up here and I just think we should try to work on peacefully discussing differences of views or people won't want to give any opinions anymore.

anukriti2409 ^ i so agree with you. People have different upbringings and cultural conditioning all over the world. We should be open to other people views and be able to listen to them with as much open mind as possible and even if we disagree, there's no need for slandering and look down upon certain views just bcoz they are different

UnholyNoise I'm curious to know why audreygrace chose to go after the people defending themselves from someone literally telling them they are mentally messed up/sexually immoral for no other reason than who they're attracted to - this thing between consenting adults that hurts no one - rather than saving the moralizing for, oh i dunno, maybe the person who is actually saying these things. This isn't just a difference of opinion, people arguing over the merits of Coke vs Pepsi or whatever. On one side there's LGBT people and our allies weighing in on fandom issues and on the other there's someone actually, seriously telling us we're like pedophiles. The moral equivalency in the above comments is pretty unfair imo.

Silverrose1991 I think that what audreygrace was trying to convey (going from both her comment here and in the article by dclairmont) is that we should try to understand why homophobic people might hold such views and try to speak out and challenge those ideas, since the LGBT population from countries where their position is more delicate (than it already is in first-world countries) might not be able to do so. But yeah, it's tough to keep that in mind when you're being attacked :/

scarletunicorn Last I knew, people who are clamoring for Elsa to be gay aren't throwing gays off roofs..Who's attacking who now?

Silverrose1991 ^I'm confused: is that a response to my comment?... Because if it is, I think you may have read too fast.

scarletunicorn Nope, to Audrey's "we must respect the homophobes uwu"

Silverrose1991 ^Ah, okay - I was afraid there had been a misunderstanding :)

ajotma @scarletunicorn @UnholyNoise I certainly agree- LGBT people aren't nearly as "bad" to homophobes as they are to us. We've been hated for almost all of history. And just because someone is raised in a culture or religion where it is viewed as negative to be LGBT doesn't mean those views "have to" prevail. I was raised and still am Catholic and was against gay rights until shortly before I discovered I was bisexual. Audreygrace's comment seems to go in the direction that "why can't we all just get along??? It's just an opinion!!" But if someone's opinion disrespects my right to be me, then it's not a healthy opinion. @SparkleFairy Living in a place where people reject LGBT rights is no excuse for you to. Discriminating against someone for sexuality is little different than discriminating based on whether someone is right or left-handed or has a mental illness. Also, Jesus Christ, Evera's comments are probably one of the worst things I've read on here. Compared to so many other social media platforms, Fanpop remains one of the most homophobic I've encountered. Also I still don't think Elsa should be a lesbian, mostly because I kinda wish people would shut up about Frozen and this would certainly get people talking. If Disney made this move it would seem like they were pandering to queer folks too fast to me rather than waiting it out a bit.

scarletunicorn It's also good to understand that most of the time LGBT folks aren't in power- in fact things like the state/the church/etc are the ones who are openly in power and are the ones oppressing the queer crowd (not allowing marriage, social insurance, etc). So the whole thing that "why can't we just get along" attitude is more than a little unfounded. It's not like the two groups are on equal grounds. Like, the homophobes will complain that " the gays are getting way too much attention wah", but honestly, USA has it easy compared to other countries. The country I was born in is so homophobic and backwards is one step away from ordering as law to get them stoned (yes, that's a culture I want to respect and be a part of, totally...). Meanwhile men can act like pigs to women but it's all ok since it's no disgusting homo action, amirite...And this is in so many parts of the world... So honestly the more advanced countries should do something with this.

Snowdaycare Elsa should not be lesbian for the same reason and more .look I think it's great that gays can fall in love but please do not make a Disney queen Lesbian

audreygrace412 UnholyNoise, I'm curious to know why, when I say a completely neutral statement that calls for both sides to try to understand each other and not resort to intolerance, do you immediately assume I have chosen a side when there is no evidence to suggest that? That being said, your reaction does fall into exactly what I'm talking about. No need to jump to such extreme conclusions. I ask for [b]both sides[/b] to show some tolerance, so your reaction is to attack me with false accusations? Not proper. Silverrose1991, thank you for actually trying to understand what I was saying and not jump to conclusions. You were absolutely right that I was saying that some people "should try to understand why homophobic people might hold such views and try to speak out and challenge those ideas, since the LGBT population from countries where their position is more delicate (than it already is in first-world countries) might not be able to do so." I was also saying that religious people have an obvious stereotype for being completely intolerant as well and that people from religious backgrounds should similarly respect those with opposing opinions enough to hear them out with out degrading their character or resorting to name calling either. Saying "I believe ...." is different than just saying "You are .....". Anyone who read my initial comment could see I addressed both sides trying to work against stereotypes, being more tolerant and trying to understand each other which I think helps all people involved. scarletunicorn, There's a more productive way to bring up the issue you are bringing up and I don't know why you are saying that to me. I also think your comment was very prejudicial, are you trying to imply that all people who don't want Elsa to be gay are "throwing gays off roofs"? That's greatly exaggerated, there are plenty of people here who have already commented that they'd prefer Elsa single to gay, do you think they are throwing gay people off roofs? Why do you have to jump to such extremism like this and how does this help the conversation be productive or positive? Also, I never said that "we should respect the homophobes" and I don't even know what "uwu" means and I'd appreciate it if you didn't completely misquote me. All I said was that there are better ways of communicating then your "attacking" methods and your attacking does nothing to help the LGBT people who are stuck in places where they have no voice. ajotma, that's close. I was actually saying, "Can't we all try to get along? Opinions can be changed but usually through polite debate not name calling and attacks." We always like to talk about being in the 21st century and being progressive - especially Americans - but I think resorting to "this opinion offends me so I don't have to politely or respectfully debate it at all" is a regressive and bigoted stance. That's just my opinion and I'm just asking people to take the higher road here and approach it in more efficient manners rather than use ridicule and moral superiority because that's not efficient at all, it's divisive from either side. [b]All I was trying to say is that no one, from any side, should use intolerance to preach against intolerance, as it is just seen as hypocrisy and not as liberating. If we all shared thoughtful and articulate opinions that actually said something powerful rather than typical character attacks, we might actually be able to change minds for the better and have a positive effect on change.[/b]

mhs1025 I may've been brash about this topic (AND having a gay DP) in the past, but I'm gonna explain my honest opinion in the best way I can. I personally don't think Elsa should be a lesbian because it might cause too much of an uproar with parents if that WERE to get out. Plus, I grew up with the whole princess/prince and price/princess pairings. (I'm not trying to start any fights here, people. Just stating an honest opinion here.)

misanthrope86 [b]scarletunicorn said:[/b] [i]It's also good to understand that most of the time LGBT folks aren't in power- in fact things like the state/the church/etc are the ones who are openly in power and are the ones oppressing the queer crowd (not allowing marriage, social insurance, etc). So the whole thing that "why can't we just get along" attitude is more than a little unfounded. It's not like the two groups are on equal grounds.[/i] This is a really, [i]really[/i] important point. Those preaching the 'tolerance' of views that have [i]deadly consequences[/i] for certain people, may wish to consider how privileged they are to be in the position to do so.

awsomegtax Well, I'm gay, and I personally don't care. I think it would be kinda neat to see a LGBT Couple for once. I don't understand why the world has to be so repulsive, and cruel. Just because someone is different. I could careless what someone else has to say. Why does it matter? I grew up watching Disney princess movies even, and I'm still gay! Not by choice, because that's who I am. I've always known since I was a child. I don't think having a LGBT couple is going to effect anything. If anything, it'll last a while, then be history. It's legal now, and should've been years ago. Just saying. Back to Elsa being a lesbian, that will have to be up to Disney. I could see them throwing a gay/lesbian couple in a movie one day, but I doubt it'll be Frozen. Religiously, I do not care. Don't shove it down my throat, because I have my own views, and will quickly shut you down if you force it on me. I also understand that life isn't fair, and that we can't get everything we want. But I do not appreciate the slander people say about LGBT Folks, such as I. Like heterosexuals, you got those that give them a bad reputation, and others a good. I'm not on this site to argue, so if you plan on calling me names, I could careless because it's nothing I haven't heard before. I've been bullied my whole life because of who I am, and I'll continue to stay true to myself.

Silverrose1991 audreygrace - I get what you're trying to say, but the thing is... it's not a simple matter of opinio as in, let's say, whether Ariel is selfish or not (to tackle one of the most controversial points in the Disney sphere). Anti-LGBT views can have dire consequences. Homophobia can lead to suicide, it can lead to an unfinished schooling, it can lead to unemployment, it leads to inequality. We live in a world where LBTQ+ are opressed. It is hard for me to see one say go by without facing some kind of homophobia (most are, thankfully, not targeted at me specifically, but I'm still in the target group), even if it is "just" jokes. So, like you said, yeah, we should try and challenge LGBT-phobic views through reasoning and not through offending. But you know what else? We are also not obliged to put up with people who say they hate us or that we are mentally deffective and deluded. It's not our duty to try and change bigots because we were born LGBT (I know you didn't say that, I'm just making my point). And there's a difference between attacking and counter-attacking.

anukriti2409 I'm not gay, I'm not homophobic. I come from a country that has laws against LGBT and a generally homophobic culture. I know that people who dont have the capacity to accept medical and scientific truth are backwards, like not accepting once that earth is not the centre of universe, that depression is a medical illness, that LGBT are as natural. But i can try to explain where the fear stems from and that it is actually the responsibility of more aware, more educated to bring the change. We were not aware of the existence of LGBT most of our lives. I consider myself privileged to be able to understand, with given education, that LGBT are as natural but most aren't as educated. It took a century for people to finally accept the truth that earth is not a centre of universe despite all evidence. If the scientists and more educated people back then would hve shrugged saying it's not our job to put up with people's ignorance, we would still be believing in falsely believed fact. So, yes, we may avoid the hate homophobics spread but alienating them is worsening the cause further. More we are open to their fears, more they will be open to change. Never the other way round. Those who dont understand differential calculus or applied maths or art techniques are not stupid, just not educated in those areas. I dont mean to offend LGBT, i support them entirely but coming out of an environment that is majorly homophobic, i understand them equally. To say the least, i wont say all are just uneducated people, there's a minority who purposefully choose to stay ignorant and spread hatred against LGBT. Such people are the only ones that we could be intolerant towards.

Silverrose1991 ^Yeah, I see your point, ignorance is a huge problem and plays an equally big part in homophobia (in my country it is so, at least). But the people who are commenting on this article and voicing out their prejudiced views have access to the internet, which means have ways of educating themselves on LGBTQ+. And while most LGBT people (myself even) do try to fight back prejudice and ignorance, I maintain that it is not our duty or anything (we're not scientists, btw, and some LGBT might be just as uneducated as some anti-LGBT).

UnholyNoise ^ Exactly. It isn't fair to put the pressure on LGBT people to be the source of education for ignorant people - if uneducated homophobes can find this group, then they can find Google and do their own research. It's just a way of equivocating and frankly, it skates pretty close to victim blaming too. LGBT people aren't always walking encyclopedias of information on LGBT issues, a lot of us are young people still trying to figure things out too.

audreygrace412 Silverrose1991, as far as a difference between "attacking" and "counter attacking", the original comment is from a teenager (a minor under 18) in a country where everyone she knows tells her that homosexuality is a horrible sin as she stated. She didn't attack anyone, she gave her opinion and why. Instead of adults (20-30) responding in a respectful and informative and educational manner, explaining their perspective, some chose to attack her and exaggerate her statements (mentioning undesirables etc.) to blow the situation out of proportion and degrade her character. Granted, there were a few who actually did choose to say "hey, here is my reality which is different from yours and I think you should know this reality exists". I'm just commending the latter for taking the high road, not saying everyone has to, but that conversations could be more peaceful and effective if more people did. After that line had already been crossed though, both sides got more tense and the conversation got less civil as it went on. That being said, anukriti2409 articulated what I was trying to say very well. The reality of the situation is that if you isolate yourself away from anyone with a negative opinion on LGBT then you are going to isolate yourself from billions of people including: Asians, Native Americans, Latinos, Hispanics, Africans, Arabs, Indians, Christians, Muslims, Hindus, Jews, Eskimos, etc. Now I am not saying all people from these groups share these negative opinions but many of them do, enough to add up to billions of people overall. This means that the LGBT people living around these billions of people with negative opinions who cannot speak on their own behalf, somewhat rely on people like me, you and anukriti2409 etc. to say the things that we are able to have the platform to say. We give awards for Peace not intolerance because peace is harder to attain. You said "We are also not obliged to put up with people who say they hate us or that we are mentally deffective and deluded. It's not our duty to try and change bigots because we were born LGBT (I know you didn't say that, I'm just making my point)." I would disagree with this as we are all sharing the same earth. Unless you are advocating for violence then people are obliged to put up with others disagreeing with them. I never said it was your duty to change someone's mind, I just said that you would do more help for all LGBT people in the world if you did choose that route instead. Furthermore, just because someone is taught that homosexuals are "mentally defective and deluded" doesn't make them a "bigot". A "bigot" is not someone who has a wrong stereotype or prejudicial view of someone etc, a bigot is someone who is intolerant to other's opinions, a person who says "I will not listen to what people have to say who disagree with me." or "I will not treat people with respect who have a different opinion than me". Bigotry is about narrow-mindedness and inability to adapt, not initial prejudice, that's a common misconception. That's why saying you refuse to respect someone with anti-LGBT views or have any discussion with them is actually more bigoted than the person who is anti-LGBT as long as they are open to hearing the other side.

Silverrose1991 audreygrace - it seems like there's been a misunderstanding. From what I gathered from your comment, you assume that a) I'm an adult; b) I'm white; and c) I live in America or another developed country. But the thing is that I'm underage, Latino (and white) and that I live in Brazil. Now, let me get something out of my chest: I'm sorry to say this, but... seeing as you're not LGBT, you can't fully understand what we go through - just as I can't fully understand what women go through, because I'm male, or even what transgender people go through because I'm cis. So, while I think that respecting others' convictions, no matter how different they are from yours, is a charming and lovely notion, it's not practical. It's not how it works. I do understand that homophobia is, more often than not - if not always, a result of one's cultural background, and I know that there are a lot of people who are essentially good yet still hold prejudiced views against LGBT - I know them in real life. But what really matters in the end when it comes to the LGBT movement and our fight against homophobia is whether they support - no, let me rephrase that - whether they [b]respect[/b] us - and that includes supporting equal rights and not saying offensive things such as "[i] I think LGBT is in the same category as paedophilia and incest.[/i]" I know it's not entirely their fault they have such views - but it's up to them, more than anyone else, to change that. Also, when I said I don't have to put up with homophobia I in no way meant taking up arms or anything like that - I'm a pacifist to the end, keep that in mind, please. What I mean is that I shouldn't have to hear things such as "[i]I don't believe LGBT is born, they are more like there are something wrong in their mentality[/i]". Neither should I, after hearing this, still be expected to take it well and not be defensive, because, why, that person in no way implied that that I'm insane and that I should probably get treatment for it. About my usage of "bigot": first, I'm not a native speaker, but you didn't know that, so it's okay. Second, after your complaint, I consulted a few online dictionaries and they all seem to agree that "bigot" also applies to [i]a person who hates or refuses to accept the members of a particular group (such as a racial or religious group)[/i] (from the Merriam-Webster) or in other words [i]a prejudiced, closed-minded person who is intolerant or hateful toward people of a different group, especially racial or religious[/i] (this one is from Wikipedia, actually). Also, no matter how defensive I might be about LGBT matters, that doesn't make me as bigoted as an aggressive homophobic person who. Because there I'm just asserting my rights and my mental sanity, while they are intent on vilifying my sexual orientation - and by extension, my identity. Oh, and if an anti-LGBT person came to me and wanted to know, wanted to learn, wanted to hear my side of things, I would try to do my best to help them, no matter how unprepared I might be (as UnholyNoise pointed out, a lot of us are still trying to figure things out too). But as it is, the people who commented in this article expressing homophobic views seem interested in furthering their prejudice, and not in hearing out what an LGBT person has to say.

audreygrace412 Silverrose1991, there has definitely been a misunderstanding and I apologize for that. I never assumed that you were a) an adult b) white c) live in America or another developed country. I am not exactly quite sure how you came to these conclusions but I will do my best to explain: a) I didn't say you attacked anyone, I said some adults here attacked others, so I wasn't implying at your age personally at all. b) I have no idea where you got this from at all? Perhaps you can explain for me please? c) You are on the internet which gives you a special platform and that was what I meant, not that you lived somewhere where LGBT were accepted. I hope that clears at least most of that up for you. :) I never once said that I did understand what LGBT people go through so I'm not sure where you got that from either? I merely said their stories should be told so that non-LGBT people can have something of reference to, other than the anti-LGBT rhetoric they've grown up with. "because I'm cis." I have no idea what this means, sorry. Actually, I would argue with you that respecting others and arguing peacefully is not only practical but the most effective as proven by many social progress leaders throughout history. What I am trying to tell you is meant to strengthen the argument of the LGBT side more, should they choose to listen because communication is going to be the most effective when you understand the people you are talking to and where they are coming from. Correct me if I am wrong but it seems to me like the very opinion itself that "LGBT is in the same category as pedophilia and incest" is so upsetting for you that you won't even look past that to see the intent behind it? What I mean is that you say it's up to them to change that, yet how do you expect them to do that when literally everyone they know around them has grown up thinking that's as much a fact as any other? Unless someone tells them how it is wrong, then how can they be expected to magically know that everything they believe, their parents believe, their church might believe, their government might believe, their friends, loved ones and everyone else they know who might believe this, is wrong? This does not make sense to me, as unless they have someone or something to reference, how are they expected to just know these things after being told opposite their entire lives? As you can see by the harmful opinion towards LGBT, it is hard to listen to the other side when one feels so offended. Someone has to be willing to take the higher ground though, whether it be you or anyone else, and it would mean a lot more coming from the underdog, in my opinion. Thank you for clarifying what you meant so I could fully understand. :) I don't mean to offend you when I suggest that some people should use better techniques to speak out about LGBT rights, I just meant that if more people did then it would help the movement overall. I understand how you could find it to be offensive to hear certain things but as anukriti2409 mentioned, some things are rooted into deep beliefs and can only be changed by people challenging the idea rather than the people repeating these ideas. I think you should absolutely be defensive, just not rudely so or aggressively so, not saying that you were. If you think about it from the other person's perspective, they really do believe you are sick and need help. Now you didn't resort to name calling and all of that but if you did, do you think that would argue the case that you are not insane, but sane, by resorting to such methods? My only point is that arguing how that is incorrect is a stronger and more efficient point that will hopefully make them question the validity of their argument rather than resorting to the argument that the person is just a bad person for thinking such a thing, if that makes sense? It leaves no room for people to just be misguided or wrong. About the term "bigot": Since English may not be your native language, as I think you were saying(?) then please let me say that this is a nuanced point but "bigot" means to treat people badly regardless of anything they say or do, it is your [i]acting on a preconceived notion or prejudice, it is not the prejudice itself[/i]. Basically prejudices can be changed, bigotry cannot. I hope that makes more sense? What I am saying is not in conflict with the dictionary definitions online at all. Bigotry/Intolerance means you will not tolerate hearing other people or being around other people of different mindset or race or religion etc.; Conversing with those people and trying to understand their position, though, is the opposite of intolerance and bigotry. I had specifically said as well that you should not have to bother with those who are intolerant and bigoted but that those who are just giving opinions and open to what you have to say without offense are not the same as bigoted and that's an important distinction to make because it tells you who might be willing to hear you out and change their mind and who won't. :) I never said that being defensive is anywhere near the same as "an aggressive homophobic person" so I am sorry if you misunderstood that. I thought I had actually mentioned that your arguments in particular were well articulated and well written and not at all what I was talking about when I mentioned bigoted comments in this thread. If I didn't mention that or make it more clear, then I apologize and hope I have done so now. "Oh, and if an anti-LGBT person came to me and wanted to know, wanted to learn, wanted to hear my side of things, I would try to do my best to help them, no matter how unprepared I might be" I completely believe this about you and I don't doubt it at all. That's why I wasn't surprised that you understood what I meant with my original comment. To simplify it all, what I am saying is that you win more bees with honey than vinegar. :) "But as it is, the people who commented in this article expressing homophobic views seem interested in furthering their prejudice, and not in hearing out what an LGBT person has to say." I don't agree with this. They seemed to have their opinion that they shared, which was attacked, [b]so they apologized and tried to clarify[/b], but they just kept getting attacked so then attacks started going from both sides. That's how I see what happened. I'm not saying I agree with the original comment - because I don't - but I don't think it was handled well by others who decided to get involved. I'd rather try to change that person's mind by showing upstanding LGBT people not reinforcing any negative connotations she has with personal attacks and insults. :) You are right that I am not LGBT and I don't understand exactly what they go through but I have had many people close to me go through it and so I like to do what I can to help create a bridge, make it less about sides, so that people won't have to live in a closet because I did personally see the negative affect it had on these people and one person close to me did try to commit suicide. So I do take it seriously and I mean it with the absolute best intent when I share my personal methods of trying to help non-LGBT people understand and accept LGBT people.

anukriti2409 Silverrose and UN: i'm sorry if i came across demanding or offensive. What i meant by more educated and more aware includes both LGBT and non LGBT actually. More educated have more knowledge and can help ignorant ones to accept truth for both again - LGBT to stop living in hiding for the fear of rejection and anti LGBT to accept them as natural equals. I have never said that it falls upon only LGBT to educate others. Like i said, i'm non LGBT and i try to spread awareness and educate as many ignorant as i can. I also try to make LGBT see where anti LGBTthoughts stem from, for them to not take extreme sides, that is, either live in hiding or hate on people who have anti LGBT thoughts. Internet is full of all kinds of information - both in support and against LGBT. How do yoy expect them to accept truth out of this muddle of information. Its like understanding sadness is self inflicted while depression is not and believe me half the people still dony understand the difference at all and still think depressed people, esp privileged ones, are sympathy/attention seekers. I completely empthaize with your view that it looks too close to victim blaming, and it does initially. I felt the same way as i have closely experienced it within my family. and that is why i say, whoever is more educated, should spread awareness as much. Rather than just passing statements like "anti LGBT people/thoughts are just wrong", it is almost like antiLGBT people saying "LGBT are sick or wierd".both statements passes judgement without any reasoning for others to understand either viewpoints. I standby my approach that more educated should educate ignorants and bridge the gap rather than widening it further. And i would continue help LGBT cause in anyway i can.