is going to hell — or a facsimile thereof, when Season 5B premieres Sunday at 8/7c.
When last we tuned in prior to the series’ long winter nap, Emma (seemingly!) transferred all of the Darkness from her and to Hook and then slayed him, (seemingly!) ridding the world of the Darkness forever. Emma, though, is determined to rescue her love from the dire fate that his selfless sacrifice dealt him, by traveling to the Underworld to split and share her heart.
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In that wild realm, however, far too many familiar faces (namely, foes) await Emma, Regina, Rumple, the Charmings et al. There also resides the one and only Hades, who for obvious as well as surprising reasons does not wish our heroes to succeed in their mission.
What follows is the bulk of my Season 5B Q&A with
creators Adam Horowitz and Eddy Kitsis — some of which has previously appeared on TVLine — punctuated by fresh-from-Vancouver soundbites from several of the series’ stars.
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TVLINE | What you’re doing there with Storybrooke-as-the Underworld is obviously practical on a cost basis. But did you at any point consider building sets, doing something with creepy caves and stalagtites and stuff?
EDDY KITSIS | We may have done both…. Stalagtites and stuff would not appear on the location [shoots in Steveston]. There’s more to our Underworld than may be apparent in photos.
TVLINE | So it’s not just “Steveston through a filter.”
ADAM HOROWITZ | It’s not just “Steveston through a filter,” and I’ll also say this: There’s a reason for why some of the Underworld appears the way it does, why it appears to be a Storybrooke in a different form. Without us spoiling too much, there’s a very specific reason why the Underworld appears as a screwed-up version of Storybrooke.
STEVE PEARLMAN (EXEC PRODUCER) | From a production perspective, it’s been really fun to take our world as we know it and turn it on its side — to make it Mr. Gold’s shop, but a
Mr. Gold’s shop. [The vision] was always a topsy-turvy version of Storybrooke, but there was quite a bit of design work that went into it, to make it look real but a bit apocalyptic. And then there is also a series of hidden caves and rivers that are a bit more in line with the mythology of Hades and Zeus.
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TVLINE | I like what the Underworld does for you, in getting to revisit past characters such as Cora, Pan…. It almost feels like a “greatest hits” album.
KITSIS | That’s right. With the back half of Season 5 and the 100th episode, people will see that there’s a very Season 1 feel to it. The theme is “Unfinished Business,” because there’s a lot of emotional closure that hasn’t happened between people we’ve seen and lost. It was a great way to celebrate five years of the show and get a chance to see people we haven’t seen in a while that really impacted us.
HOROWITZ | Sometimes you have to look back to move forward and that’s part of what the storytelling is about in the second half of the season. While there certainly are old friends and old enemies from the past who return in a new form, it’s about how the past of many of our core characters has held them back or has prevented them from finding the place that they want to be in their lives.
JOSH DALLAS (DAVID) | The coolest thing about the Underworld is that we get to confront our pasts, which is always a dangerous thing.
KITSIS | One of the reunions is Regina seeing her mother again – especially since the last thing her mother said before Snow White killed her was, “You would have been enough.” We’ve never seen Regina and her mother cordial.
LANA PARRILLA (REGINA) | They left off in a pretty good place, except it ended pretty quickly. So when you first see them, they have this really warm, deep embrace. They’re really happy to see each other and experience what their relationship could have been with Cora having her heart back.
HOROWITZ | I’m also very curious what it’s like for Rumplestiltskin if he were to encounter his father again.
TVLINE | Emma of course is on a journey to save Hook. Could he possibly not
to be rescued? Is it, like, the ultimate “man cave” down there?
HOROWITZ | You are very perceptive on that front, but we don’t want to get more specific than that.
COLIN O’DONOGHUE (HOOK) | When Hook sacrificed himself, he did it for all the right reasons, and he never expected to be found. Whether they find him or not… he did what he did to save the people he loves.
HOROWITZ | And we will say this: The impetus to rescue Hook is the tip of the iceberg. Meaning, we’re designing the second half of the season to not be the binary question of “Do they rescue Hook or do they not?” That’s just our entry way to another world and what we hope is a wealth of stories that impact
TVLINE | What is Hook’s mindset when we next see him?
O’DONOGHUE | Hook is in a bad place — geographically, mentally, physically…. [
TVLINE | Do those in the Underworld take kindly to visitors?
HOROWITZ | Some do, some don’t. And there certainly are agendas down there. There certainly are some who are more welcoming than others. Some are very happy to see people who are not dead, and there are some who are very, very
happy. That’s the fun of designing this half of the season, bringing in characters will all different agendas into this crazy world.
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TVLINE | Might Emma get detoured from her objective? What drama and obstacles await her “down under”?
HOROWITZ | Although following Hook is what initially brings her to the Underworld, once there it becomes a journey that forces her to look inward and come to terms with the fact that her role as Savior has not been fulfilled, and is actually just beginning.
JENNIFER MORRISON (EMMA) | Trying to save Hook from being dead is an obstacle in and of itself! Also, her family has decided to go with her, which means a lot to her because she has never had that support in her life before, but it’s also a lot of pressure. We’re also encountering people who have “unfinished business,” and some of that unfinished business is because of
SEAN MAGUIRE (ROBIN HOOD) | There are obstacles everywhere. There are a lot of bad people from the past coming back, and they’re not too happy with our heroes. If
. This is gonna get dark, it’s gonna get a little scary, and there are going to be a few surprises.
TVLINE | What sort of conflict might the Charmings run into?
have a brother that he’s never met.
DALLAS | Let’s just say that David might come face to face with his past….
HOROWITZ | I kind of love the idea that the Charmings are so smart and so good and want to do so well, they ran headstrong into this, thinking they’ll just be “in and out.” But the Charmings are not privy to our work in the writers room, and we’re spending some time in the Underworld. There certainly are consequences to that sort of headstrong jump, where they left a child behind [in Storybrooke]…. There are some really emotional things they’re going to have to deal with because of that.
TVLINE | They acted as if they were just ducking out to a Walgreen’s.
KITSIS | [The heroes] are all a little cocky now. They’re like, “For 100 episodes, we’ve been kicking villains’ asses and always winning.”
HOROWITZ | But in all seriousness, we do love that idea that the Charmings are so heroic that they didn’t really think — “We’ll just do this and we’ll be back and it’ll be fine.” But it’s much more complex than that. They have to deal with being a family and what that means and all the responsibilities that come with it.
DALLAS | [Leaving baby Neal behind] was not the best parenting choice, and they’re feeling that. They don’t want to make a mistake, like they did the first time with Emma.
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TVLINE | Tell me about the always entertaining Greg Germann (
HOROWITZ | It’s his domain, and Greg is a very, very fun actor who brings amazing amounts of depth and skill. He can do all sorts of things, which were very excited to have him show you. There are very specific reasons for why Hades is in the Underworld, some of which you can probably guess, based on the mythology of Hades in general. But we’re going to do our
Once spin on it and have some fun in seeing what he’s doing down there and why. He also has a very direct connection at least one of our characters. He’s not related [to someone], but there’s a very important connection that were going to reveal.
TVLINE | Does Hades strike fear in even the worst of those in the Underworld, or is it more of a professional respect?
KITSIS | That is a question that we will answer pretty quickly.
KITSIS | The Underworld is kind of a weigh station between two other worlds. Hades has a brother that’s up in Mount Olympus, and then there’s a place “downstairs” that’s even worse. This is kind of a domain where you’re there because you haven’t found closure yet.
TVLINE | So if we don’t see, for example, Neal down there, it’s because he’s moved on to one of those two destinations?
KITSIS | That is correct. It must be because he moved on.
HOROWITZ | And that applies to pretty much anyone we don’t see down there. I will say this: It is our hope that in the premiere and certainly in the first couple episodes that the rules of who
are clearly delineated, so the audience can understand who they’re seeing and not seeing and why. If not, they can find me on Twitter.
TVLINE | Does Emma at least inquire about Neal when she gets there?
KITSIS | I would think that it would be very disappointing for her to go down there and not have somebody talk about Neal. [
TVLine has since reported that Michael-Raymond James will appear in the winter premiere, as Neal
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TVLINE | What do you want to say about bringing back Milah?
KITSIS | Again, we’re in a place where there are people who are dead. She has a big connection to two of our main characters, so we don’t want to spoil anything, but… Emma’s been with a few people Milah knows, so that could get
HOROWITZ | I love the idea of Milah learning just how she is connected to all our characters.
TVLINE | Is Rumple’s restored Dark One status widely known to everybody now?
KITSIS | It is widely known to the group that went down there [to the Underworld]; it is not known to Belle.
TVLINE | Speaking of Belle (played by the pregnant Emilie de Ravin), how will you keep her busy back home?
HOROWITZ | We have plans to keep Belle busy.
KITSIS | We’re going to get a Belle backstory, about her time before Rumple, that will lead right up to [the events of Season 1’s] “Skin Deep.” Belle’s going to have stuff on her plate.
TVLINE | Is it a maybe an “every third episode thing” or…?
HOROWITZ | I’d say we’ll see her more than that; it’s not like she’s disappeared from the show. Although she didn’t get on the boat with our heroes, she becomes very involved. She’s important to the story. We left Belle and Rumple in a place at the end of the midseason cliffhanger where that relationship was evolving and having its own new obstacle [Rumple’s Dark One status] that we’ll eventually put in its way. We’re not in any way abandoning any of those story threads. We’re
, and we hope the audience agrees with this, that we pick up on them in an unexpected way. Particularly because she didn’t get on that boat, the audience may expect her not to be involved, but that’s not our intention.
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TVLINE | What are you doing with Zelena in Oz, and the new “warrior” Dorothy?
KITSIS | The Zelena story in Oz, and Dorothy, will tie into our Underworld story pretty significantly.
, or for any other show? Email email@example.com and your question may be answered via Matt’s Inside Line.
Man, all those guests…it’s gonna be awesome. Or it could get ugly really fast!
Looking forward to this second half, especially seeing Cruella again (by far one of my favourite villains on the show). I hope this second half is better than the first. The Camelot and Brave stuff/characters were a huge bore most of the time.
I still hate the fact that they made Rumple evil again. Getting a little tired of the back and forth. Any progress he made was for nothing. I’m not invested in Rumbelle at all and even though Belle can be incredibly dull and boring at times, she doesn’t deserve that. I was so happy when she toughened up at the end of 4A and pushed him over the town line. Hope she catches on quick and cuts him loose again. He can’t keep double crossing her and thinking she will just accept it.
Thanks for keeping us updated. I am curious about the man cave thing with Hook. If he is in bad shape wouldn’t think he’d want to stay.
I’m with you. You’d think with him in bad shape he really wouldn’t want to stay.
Well one story thread they did tease during the time season 5a aired and yet don’t mention again now with respect to the Underworld arc is more of Robin Hood’s backstory and specifically his dark past. I’m trying to give them the benefit of doubt, but I won’t be surprised if he’s pushed aside again in favor of people like Hades and Zelena or the dozen guest stars they’re bringing back. I just don’t have any luck with this show. The characters I like are always the ones the writers ignore and/or kill off again quickly.
Great job, Matt. I have no idea what to think about Rumbelle. Adam and Eddy are always so negative about them; I can’t think of one time they’ve ever given fans a drop of hope.
I’m dying to know if Belle is pregnant; I wonder if they’ve completely dropped that? Why not ust say she’s not at this point so that fans don’t get their hopes up?
Thanks for asking about Belle’s screentime (especially if it will be “every third episode”, as has been the pattern in the past with this show). Adam’s answer doesn’t convince me that she’ll appear very often, which is a shame. She was left behind for the Neverland story, too. And the “Belle doesn’t know” stuff just sounds like a rehash of Season 4A. Too bad the writers don’t seem to know what to do with Belle, aside from her “one centric with a guest character” every arc. She and Rumple could have such an interesting story, if they weren’t written in a perpetual loop of non-progress. But that’s kind of the problem with the writing for most of the characters on this show.
Yeah, it’s as if Adam is telling Rumbelle and Belle fans not to bother watching. I was so excited about 5B for them, but now it’s hard to be.
I feel the same way, and I’m a huge Rumbelle fan. Well, at least he told her the truth about needing his blood for the portal. Maybe, Belle will find a note or something. But the only thing that could possibly justify Rumple taking back the curse would be if it were revealed that he did it to try and save Emma for Henry’s sake, or he’s doing it to try to get back Nealfire. Anything that goes beyond JUST wanting power back because that’s really OOC. However, I’m growing more and more convinced that A&E haven’t cared about Rumple or Belle’s characters since the end of 3B. In fact, they’ve disrespected every one of their own characters, their actors, and the majority of their fanbase with this writing that has just gotten more and more terrible for every character on this show ever since 3B. They lie to fans and give them hope for nothing. All they care about is Hook and CS. Truly, I’m quite tired of it!
We have no idea what he tells her, though; where did you hear that? Even if it’s true, that’s like a big nothing to me…..and I’m finding it hard to give a hoot about a 24 second scene where he deliberately and STUPIDLY lies to her. I mean, good grief, There are hours between the time Rumbelle are together and when Rumple leaves and he chooses to hide this….for as long as he’s in the UW (which could be a long time). I mean, is he stupid? Really? After the lying in 4A? After he almost lost Belle for good? Yeah right this isn’t the same old, same old….
This is not about taking back the curse, which Rumple doesn’t have to justify (they were broken up) – and we know why he took it back, which A/E have said (it’s not about power. You already know this). This is about his lies… how on earth can he ever be in a relationship ? How can Belle ever trust him? Ever?
I guess I’ll have to hope that Belle really lays into Rumple – not for being the DO, but for lying. She didn’t seem all that furious when she left the shop, and he didn’t seem all that concerned……and then the Gaston thing happened. I hope at least that when they go to the docks that they can talk – before Gaston and Hades pop up again. That hug was nice, but I really don’t want it to be a hug based simply on the fact that she’s scared….
Emma will find Hook. I look forward to when and how.
Awesome interview and they actually said something! (often times, I know just as much about the topic after I read the interview than I did before I read it.)
Still hoping they’ll get rid of Zelena once and for all, and I wouldn’t mind if Belle either stopped being so hung up on Rumple (though that would certainly not give either a happy ending) or stopped applying double standards. She holds grudges against everyone else but keeps excusing the guy who is responsible for it all and who values power more than her.
And maybe the Charmings went to the Underworld without thinking and one of them should, at least, have stayed behind but I think it’s very much in character. They’re acting on faith, just like they’ve always acted on faith and if they stopped now, they’d be in danger of letting fear cloud their faith and they might lose it. I think they need this faith and they need it for the sake of everyone. It’s their contribution to the group.
Anyway, I’m looking forward to it and the journey which lies ahead for everyone!
I would think based on what they said about Baby Neal, that they may age him when they finally leave the underworld. perhaps time moves differently down there. The Charmings miss their second child’s childhood. Or maybe time moves slower so that even though he just died from the heroes point of view, for Hook perhaps it has been years since he saw Emma. Maybe he is back with Milah.
I would really like to know what happens to Arthur and Guenavine. They wanted to turn Storybrook into Cama lot and that part was never discovered by our Hero’s yet
Speaking of, the curse wasn’t actually broken, was it? At least, I don’t recall someone breaking the curse, unless it was broken when the Dark Ones were killed? But all I remember is that the core characters got their memories back through the dream catchers, or did I forget something?
Ginnifer Goodwin on Jimmy Kimmel kind of gave away that Emilie de Ravin pregnancy will be written into the story while her pregnancy won’t be. When explaining why her pregnancy won’t be written in she explained that the timing, where they are in story prevented Snow from having baby 3. She then mentioned another character is pregnant in the story and an actress got pregnant a few weeks before she did. She then joked maybe they could write a pregnancy curse . Not really a surprise since they had the scene where Rumple and Belle had apparently just been together. So Snow will be carrying bags and hiding in the bushes when Once resumes.
Wow Ginny gave away something like that? Adam and Eddy probably wouldn’t be too happy with that since they’ve tried to keep that a huge secret. The thing is, it’s clear that Emilie’s pregnancy isn’t being written in because the timing isn’t right, but I’ve thought for awhile that we’d get Belle being pregnant at the end of the season – guess this is confirmation. Thanks for posting that!
Ok so I watched and I think that probably Ginny is referencing Zelena since she used the past tense – although I’m not sure why she referenced Emilie’s pregnancy. I still think Belle will be pregnant, but not based on this.
I am very much looking forward to the 100th episode, and am hopeful that 5B will be a better-balanced storyline for all our our main characters. I’ve stuck with this show since the very beginning, but 5A tried my patience a lot.
I’m most pleased that we’ll see Cora back! Her storyline finished so abruptly in S2 in order to ‘make way’ for Pan’s arc, so I’m glad we’ll have some resolution. She’s a very interesting character since she’s connected to so many different main characters, like Regina, Zelena, Rumple, Henry, Snow, etc. Also, Barbara Hershey is such an amazing actress.
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