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What kind of argument would te give for, o against, evolution?

 blackpanther666 posted più di un anno fa
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whiteflame55 said:
For is pretty simple - we've got a lot of scientific evidence to prove it. Fossils and Bones provide quite a bit of that, but there's also plenty in the microbial world to go off of. I could get più detailed here, but really it's an argument between evidence and speculation.
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posted più di un anno fa 
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I suggest te read that book I mentioned some time ago. A lot of the evidence can be argued against. Like I said, read the Greatest Hoax On Earth, so then te will at least be on the same wavelength as me.
blackpanther666 posted più di un anno fa
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Sadly, I don't have that kind of time. I can barely get time enough to read the libri I already have. I think the majority of evidence still holds up to scrutiny, at least from what I've read on the subject. I'm sure there are doubts to be had, I just don't think there's anything that makes evolution lose it's place as the most well-substantiated theory out there.
whiteflame55 posted più di un anno fa
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Oh, certainly not. I'm not saying that this book makes evolution lose its place, simply that it makes one think. Yes, a lot of the facts for evolution hold up to scrutiny, but its interesting to see this guy in action anyway. Even if te have little time, I'm sure te could eventually find some and give it a light read some day.
blackpanther666 posted più di un anno fa
bri-marie said:
I think the biggest reason for is anatomy. Our own skeletal structure has remains of a tail bone. If we never ever had some ancestor that had a tail that we evolved from, why do we have part of a tail bone?

Whales and dolphins have hips and fingers. Sharks and pesce have proven that the finger Bones aren't needed for living in the water (they don't have them), and the whale's and dolphin's hips aren't attached to the spine. They're free floating, and don't actually help them swim. If whales and dolphins hadn't evolved from some animal that once lived on land, why have Bones that serve no purpose?
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posted più di un anno fa 
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Interesting. This is something that wasn't covered in the book I read. I think this makes a good point for evolution.
blackpanther666 posted più di un anno fa
BabyBlud said:
Evolution is a scientific fact that changes its' visualizzazioni based on what's observed around it. Scientists and philosophers for thousands of years have watched life on Earth and in the universe and noted down the changes and what they have discovered.
For example the Greek philosopher Aristotle observed life being born/built and then dying/torn down. From that theory he invented "matter" the "essence of things" from which everything is made and can only be destroyed if there is nothing of the aforementioned left.
If te look through history te will see we how far we have come as human beings thanks to evolution, from being little monkeys in trees (as Bri-Marie detto humans have the remnants of tail bones) to humans who did nothing più the squat in mud huts and eat raw meat all the way to how we are today. Evolution is the growth of all things, we are growing as a human civilization, with the invention of new technology, a system of hierarchy etc.
Even animali and as Whiteflame55 said, even bacteria are evolving to ensure their safety and survival in an ever changing world/universe. New species of birds and beetles are being discovered each year, a branch family to one that has traveled on this Earth for centuries, which has changed their DNA in such a way as to ensure their safety. New vaccines are needing to be made as bacteria mold themselves. Swine flu, bird flu etc are all new diseases and illness caused da either bacterial o fungal microbes evolving.
Even the universe is evolving, even if we can't see it. The sun's solar flares that happen every 11years, evolution. The birth and death of every star, nebula, galaxy - evolution.

Evolution is amazing, and though i doubt we humans will ever understand it fully o even still be here when it's end comes, it's a wonderful subject and one i take a great interest in.
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posted più di un anno fa 
misanthrope86 said:
I was going to leave my response in a commento on bri-marie's answer, but I'm a nerd so this blew up into massive comment. bri-marie mentioned the tail-bone as an evolutionary leftover. For me, the human body is really the greatest evidence for evolutionary theory. For example, the expansion of our voice box (for più varied and intricate speech) led to the rather inconvenient re-arrangement of our oesophagus and trachea. Now we can't breathe and eat at the same time, hence the human tendency to choke. Other animals, while it is possible, are highly unlikely to choke because their breathing system and their eating system do not intersect like ours does. On the other hand, no other animal has the same kind of speech that we have...
te really can find stuff like this in every nook and cranny in the human body. The evolution of the human brain and what that has meant for the skull and the skeleton complessivamente, generale is fascinating. Bipedalism also had a big impact on everything from our brains to our hands to Bones to sex to birth to body hair etc etc.
And that's just the human body. This stuff is literally endless.
So that is where I would start any argument for evolution.
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posted più di un anno fa 
prophet69 said:
I don't think I'll have enough space. First, I will present arguement against Evolution. Then, I'm going to present arguement for Evolution. Though, I hardly have any arguement against it.
----Against----
Mathematically Evolution is not possible.
The basic theory of evolution is that genes undergo random changes called mutations that produce new and different genes. These new, different genes may produce functional proteins that undergo natural selection to give the organism a distinct survival advantage in its particular environment. The combination of these changes eventually, over time, lead to the development of new species.
Let us examine, mathematically, the time required for the development of a single gene that codes for a functional protein,which is the first step, in order for the evolution process to be considered a viable theory. Let us assume that this gene contains 150 codons each coding for an amino acid thus forming a small protein of 150 amino acids for a bacterial species (bacterial genes usually code for proteins over 330 amino acids). Since each codon on the gene couldcode for 1 of the 20 different amino acids, the amount of possible proteins that could be formed is 20 150 (1.4 x 10 195).
Current scientific findings have shown that 1 in every 10 77 proteins formed from a 150 amino acid protein molecule is functional (Douglas Axe - Cambridge Biochemist). This would mean that for every 1 x 10 77 mutations, a potential functional 150 amino acid protein could be formed which could then undergo natural selection.
Let us now calculate the total number of mutations that could occur in a dense bacterial colony similar to your intestinal colon environment, (4 x 10 11 bacteria permm 3) which covers the entire surface of the earth (5 x 10 20 mm 2) and extends 100 kilometers (1 x 108 mm) upwards to the point where it is considered that the atmosphere meets outer space(Karman's Line). Let us also say that this colony ofbacteria has been around since the beginning of the earth 4.5 billion years fa (4.5 x 10 9 years) and actively multiplying and mutating since. We will also assume that the maximum mutation rate of 150 codons for this gene is occurring with every bacterial division. Bacteria usually divide every 9.8 minuti which is equivalent to 5.37x 10 4 division per year.
The total number of mutations therefore would be:
4 x 10 11 x 5 x 1020 x 1 x 10 8 x 4.5 x 10 9 x 150 x5.37 x 10 4 = 7.2 x 10 56 mutations
Based on our calculation we would still require considerably più time to cover the period necessary to form one functional small protein despite the extremely generous and improbable hypothesis in favor of mutation and evolution.
i.e. 4.5 x 10 9 x 1 x 10 77 / 7.2 x 10 56 = 625 x 10 27 years o 625 billion, billion, billion years.
This process would need to be repeated at least 3200 times for the average bacterial cell to account for its total gene pool. In the case of humans with over 25,000 genes with an av
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posted più di un anno fa 
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with an average amino acids count per protein of over 1000, the number of years to evolve would be unimaginable. With this type of data, evolution should not even be referred to as a theory but a myth derived from intellectual pursuit. Now, It's time to present the For arguement.
prophet69 posted più di un anno fa
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----For---- 1. Evolution reproduced in the lab o documented in nature: a. Two strains of frutta flies Lost the ability to interbreed and produce fertile offspring in the lab over a 4-year span ... i.e. they became two new species. (Easily repeated experiment.) b. A new plant species (a type of firewood), created da a doubling of the chromosome count from the original stock (Mosquin, 1967). c. Multiple species of the house topo, mouse unique to the Faeroe Islands occurred within 250 years of introduction of a foundation species on the island. d. Formation of 5 new species of cichlid fishes that have formed in a single lake within 4,000 years of introduction of a parent species. 2. Fossil evidence - (So much to list).The way fossils appear in the layers of rock always corresponds to relative development ... più primitive creatures in lower(older) layers. Absolute dating of fossils using radiometry. Constant discovery of new transitional forms.E.g. reptile-birds, reptile-mammals, legged whales, legged sea cows. 3. Genetic evidence - E.g. the fact that humans have a huge number of genes (as much as 96%) in common with other great apes... and (as much as 50%) with wheat plants. The pattern of genetic evidence follows the tell-tale patterns of ancestral relationships (more genes in common between recently related species, and fading the further back in time). 4. Molecular evidence - These are commonalities in DNA ... which is separate from genetic commonalities ... much of our DNA does not code for genes at all. But random mutations (basically 'typos') enter into DNA at a known rate over the centuries. This is called the 'molecular clock' and again gives excellent evidence of when humans diverged from other apes (about 6 million years ago, according to this molecular clock), and this corresponds perfectly with when these fossils first appear in the fossil record (using radiometricdating). 5. Evidence from proteins - Proteins - E.g., things like blood proteins (the things that give us our A, B, O blood typing and the Rh factor (the plus/minus thing) which incidentally stands for 'rhesus monkey')
prophet69 posted più di un anno fa
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OK ... three più arguments FOR human evolution. 1. The plantaris muscle. The Plantaris muscle is a long thin muscle that runs up the vitello of,the human foot and up the calf. In humans it doesnt serve any purposeas a muscle. We know this because it can be removed without any effect on walking o balance whatsoever. (it is removed routinely because it can still get injured, o because surgeons often need muscle tissue they can use elsewhere in the body for reconstructive surgery, such as cuore surgery.) [1] However the same muscle is found much più strongly developed, and essential, in other ape species. It is the muscle that enables grasping with the feet. 2. Human chromosome #2. Humans have 23 pairs of chromosomes. Apes (like chimps, bonobos, and gorillas) have 24. So it was a prediction of evolution that IF we came from a common ancestor, we should find some evidence of*fusion* in one of our chromosomes to explain the the fact that we have one fewer chromosome. We found this evidence of fusion, in Human Chromosome #2. (The second-largest of our chromosomes.). The evidence is not just in the position of genes on the chromosome, thatare found in two chromosomes in other apes, but also an extra centromere (the section on the chromosome where paired chromosomes are attached), and an extra set of telomeres (sections of DNA normally at the tips of chromosomes) in the middle of Chromosome #2. [2] 3. Human color vision. Humans have 3-color vision. That means that we have three kinds of cells in our eyes that respond to three different wavelengths of light (the red, green, and blue regions of the light spectrum). Most other mammals only have 2-color vision (which is why we sometimes say that Gatti and dogsare "colorblind" although that word is a bit of a misnomer ...they still have color vision, but are simply missing one of the three kinds of cells that we have). The exception among mammals,besides humans, are the apes, and the other primates of Africa and Asia ... collectively known as the Old World Primates (OW primates). The monkeys of Central and South America have 2-color vision, like the rest of the mammals. These are collectively known as the New World Primates. (There are no ape species in the Americas.) Geneticists have even been able to trace the specific mutation on the X-chromosome where the gene that codes for one of the two proteins (called opsins) in normal mammal 2-color vision, was duplicated and one of the duplicates mutated to lead to a third opsin gene (and thus 3-color vision in humans and the OW primates). They can even trace WHEN this mutation occurred, and this corresponds with when the continental drift between Africa and South America permanently diviso, spalato the primates into two main groups. [3]
prophet69 posted più di un anno fa
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