Iron Islands plot to be omitted from Game of Thrones season 5 

season 5 has been well-documented so far, giving us insight into King’s Landing, Meereen, Dorne and beyond. However, we now have clarification on the exclusion of one particular area/plotline: the Iron Islands.

While the Dorne-based subplot will be in season five, producers have previously indicated the Iron Islands subplot has been omitted.

… asked the producers last season if they were doing Dorne and Iron Islands in season 5. They said they were doing one of them. Later they announced they were doing Dorne.

This suggests that of the two, the producers in fact chose to portray Dorne

the Iron Islands in the fifth season. Of course, this holds no confirmation for the future of the isles; we may well see them and their corresponding characters in season 6 and beyond.

For now, however, we can rest assured that there will be no Kingsmoot plot in the upcoming season – which also bodes ill for the Greyjoy brothers. On the other hand, whether we will see Yara post-Dreadfort escape, or even Balon’s delayed death, are still up for discussion.

In other news, new screenwriter Dave Hill continues to mete out official glimpses into the production of season 5. Today, he offered us our best view yet of the show’s iteration of the 

, upon which Tyrion and Jorah will no doubt become well acquainted.

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What is dead may never die, but rises again, harder and stronger!

Oh maybe there’s still also hope for LS in Season 10. Oh wait

Not a good move. Would much rather have the Iron Born than the Martels.

Good. It wasn’t that interesting anyway, and theres enough plotlines as is.

Damn, I’ll miss the Crow’s Eye. Here’s hoping for Season 6, (I think Tywin’s using the example of a house with great wealth and fertile land asking for protection from a house with a powerful navy was foreshadowing,) and we will still in all likelihood get Balon’s death in Season 5.

It’s funny that the Iron Islands bit was THE ONLY piece of legit info in that Hibberd article.

I wouldn’t be surprised if we see Pyke at least once though and see Yara get sent back to Deepwood Motte.

No surprise at all, but nice to have some official confirmation!

I would think this means they are cut from the series not just the season, right? If the Greyjoys do get some screen time next year I would think it would have to be extremely cut back from their role in the books…. Would they introduce important players in the second to last season? It does not feel right to me, but who knows….

Seeing as that article also states that Bran Stark will definitely not be in season 5, I’m not sure if i would trust the source. Isaac Hempstead-Wright himself confirmed he would be in season 5.

I think it’s the news Dorne was chosen instead of the Iron Islands which really grates on me. Disliked Dorne in the books, dislike the direction they’re going with it in the show and now I’m going to be constantly thinking “they dropped the Iron Islands for this?”. Jaime and Bronn are going to have to nail it nob on to make it watchable for me.

https://twitter.com/TheDove_Stark/status/525363052502605825 IMDB says Emilia Clarke’s birthday’s in May though, so I wonder what the cake is for.

We pretty much knew this already. The Iron Islands plotline itself is gone, but Euron as a character will still be in (in season 6). He’s too juicy of a villain for them to pass up.

Just a thought, but it occurs to me that maybe D&D wanted to save the Greyjoy’s for Season 6, because they needed some big political/military issue for that particular season. After all they ain’t doing fAegon, and while Dany might start traveling to Westeros in Season 6 she wouldn’t get there right away, so there has to be *something* south of the Wall that’s helping to continue the state of chaos in Westeros as well as drive events in KL. That way if/when Dany gets to Westeros she and her dragons might be the only things that can take down Euron.

I wouldnt pay too much attention to it, the article also suggests that Bran wont be in Season 5 when he even Isaac has noted to the contrary. The writer is just reporting assumptions based on previous reports.

Good point. Another indicator that while the main storyline might not take place, they’ll still be doing set-up for events later down the line.

Fair question. I asked the producers last season if they were doing Dorne and Iron Islands in season 5. They said they were doing one of them. Later they announced they were doing Dorne. Those tracking the castings have already pieced this together as they would have needed to cast a few more roles if they wanted to delve into that world, like they did with Dorne. From a storytelling standpoint it makes sense — Martin had to split the characters into two books to fit in the Dorne and Iron Islands subplots, but a TV show has to use or lose its actors (benching Bran is hard enough!). I’m not saying S5 won’t have any Iron Islands scenes, only that my understand is the big book 4 subplot isn’t a part of S5.

show watchers only don’t care at all about the Greyjoys (same for Bran and Stannis) that’s probably the reason why they omitted them

My friend hates Stannis and Theon, he’s going to love Season 5

That’s your opinion. I think Dorne was more HBO friendly (but after hearing about all the changes they’re making to Dorne, I’m a bit worried).

They really are. Soon enough we will join them.

I had meant to quote that in the post, since that was the basis of it in the first place.

“That one. The writer. Slit his throat and throw him into the sea.”

The silliest thing that’s driving me bonkers is that the third leech isn’t being addressed. If they just tie up that one thread this season I’ll be happy… and they need to do a short reintroduction of the group in season 6….

Sensible decision. There are enough plotlines as i is and the show really is at breaking point with regards to that. I can only presume that Dorne will play a bigger part in the end game, so they chose it instead (which would make sense, but until George pulls his finger out we won’t know for sure). Oberyn’s populaity compared to the current Iron Islands characters probably contributed to this, but it also might be because

Despite this, I hope we see both Yara and Balon in Season 5. Something decent needs to happen to both this season.

I’m thinking Euron can still be in season 6 if he is more than a ship delivery man, but Victarion and Aeron are cut.

I would think this means they are cut from the series not just the season, right? If the Greyjoys do get some screen time next year I would think it would have to be extremely cut back from their role in the books…. Would they introduce important players in the second to last season? It does not feel right to me, but who knows….

I tend to agree. It would be odd to bring in Euron and position him as a major threat so late in the story. Perhaps he will be introduced in a more benign way.

I figure we still have to see Balon and Yara this season.

After what they did with Yara last season, I’m glad they aren’t touching the rest of the ironborn. They are just Stannis-and-dragon fodder anyway, sadly.

NOOOOOOO!!! Why did they even bother setting up the Greyjoys as a faction in the show claining a crown and having a military force if they then do nothing. Not to mention the leeches. They have set up a huge hole in the plot and they’re just leaving it hanging. Like them or not, they were a credible threat in season 2 and now this will be the third season in a row where they don’t do anything. Sure Yara and Theon have had stuff, but the actual Greyjoy forces and king have done nothing. It needs to be resolved somehow and soon, not just forgotten about. Even if they change it completely from the book they need to tie up the loose threads.

You know what, seeing how crowded season 5 is going to be I was hoping that they leave out the Iron Islands story for season 6 where hopefully they will have enough time to tell it in its full glory. Now in the case that they have cut out the Iron Islands story from the show completely… we riot there is no way around that.

That does not mean that the Iron Islands are cut from the show, as some fans have interpreted this (which makes no sense – they’re already in the show, they can’t abandon the storyline from now on), just that they’re not a part of season 5, which was pretty obvious from the casting and filming news anyway.

– Extended Dorne with Jamie and Bronn

– King’s Landing with the sparrows, Cersei’s Fall, and a little Loras trouble

– a little Bran, a little Sansa, a little littlefinger…

Assuming that we still get some Yara and some Varys it seems to be already pretty packed in Season 5… Placing The iron Islands’ Plot somewhere would generate some confusion for non-readers… and I guess Even for readers it would bot be comfortable to watch The show hopping around wildly.

However, I am worried, that they are cutting all connections to Dany that are buildt up in ADWD: Vic, Young Griff, Quentyn… Will they have Dany going to Westeros just directly?

I don’t care if they have to turn Daario into Euron. Just make Euron happen please

Can I just say for the record that I think Isaac Hempstead Wright is, if not lying, giving deliberately misleading answers to the Bran question? James Hibberd and EW have posted two articles now that definitively say Bran won’t be in Season 5, and he’s standing by his story.

Let’s also remember that Hibberd posted a “No Lady Stoneheart is actually a good thing” op-Ed piece the second the Season 4 finale ended. The very definition of positive spin. He gets the exclusive casting news from time to time, and clearly carries Benioff & Weiss’s water in a major way. I’m inclined to think he has well-placed Deep Throats in the production to tell him if he’s off-base.

So yeah. I don’t think there will be any Bran at all next year, and for whatever reason Isaac has adopted the Christopher Nolan/JJ Abrams approach of misleading the press.

Saw this coming a mile away; the Iron Islands just haven’t been developed in the show at all. For god’s sake we still haven’t even seen Balon’s banana peel-slip and I wouldn’t be surprised if we

. Everything about Pyke introduced in S2 was to further Theon’s story, and his story is nowhere near Pyke now.

And let’s all be perfectly honest here.. aside from Euron, no other solid or even interesting character has came out of that gray, wet hell hole. Aeron, Victarion and even Asha are as replaceable as Belwas’ left nut.

I think Darkstar had more of an impact on the story. Wrap your noggins around that one.

I’ve always thought that this would be great for the TV adaptation (regardless of whether it actually happens in book cannon). However, from the last couple months of news, it seems like Michiel has been present for Meereen filming both for early and late season episodes, so it isn’t looking good imo.

This is shaping up to be the first season I’m really having doubts about.

Euron, Manderly and “The Griffs” were characters I was really looking forward to seeing. Euron if he appears won’t be until next season, Manderly we would have heard of by now I think, and likewise The Griffs. And all to fit in some extra Dorne? Apart from Doran being the only genuine “good” lord since poor old Ned, it struggled to hold my interest. Well, apart from Darkstar, and he didn’t hold my interest for the reasons the author intended! Is it being focused on because of all the (in my opinion spurious) complaints about the lack of “diversity”?

It was very helpful that Hibberd responded to the comment I left about the basis for his saying the Iron Islands storyline isn’t in this season, though I asked if he could confirm if he has any more information confirming Bran’s absence apart from the Nairn interview cited in the post, to which he hasn’t said anything. But he seems quite certain on that latter point.

Iron Islanders actually got a few mentions in conversation in season 4, so I think they’ll follow up on

The way I see it there are a few ways the show could have handled this differently.

1) Never bother with the Greyjoys in the first place. Probably wouldn’t work in hindsight because then Theon would never claim Winterfell and Bran would never leave.

2) Have Balon die as in the books, but then not introduce the uncles and get Yara to bow to either Stannis or the Lannisters. Puts us basically where we already are now but with a sense of resolution to the storyline. Kinda like when Renly died, his forces didn’t carry on without him. If they do need to cut the Greyjoys for time or because they are largely irrelevant in the end then this is heaps better than leaving it unresolved.

3) Do the kingsmoot back in season 4 when there weren’t that many new storylines yet, when the Greyjoys hadn’t been doing nothing for too long and when the storyline actually takes place chronologically within the books.

Essentially don’t start a storyline and then ignore it with no progression or conclusion.

Can I just say for the record that I think Isaac Hempstead Wright is, if not lying, giving deliberately misleading answers to the Bran question?James Hibberd and EW have posted two articles now that definitively say Bran won’t be in Season 5, and he’s standing by his story.

Let’s also remember that Hibberd posted a “No Lady Stoneheart is actually a good thing” op-Ed piece the second the Season 4 finale ended. The very definition of positive spin. He gets the exclusive casting news from time to time, and clearly carries Benioff & Weiss’s water in a major way.I’m inclined to think he has well-placed Deep Throats in the production to tell him if he’s off-base.

So yeah. I don’t think there will be any Bran at all next year, and for whatever reason Isaac has adopted the Christopher Nolan/JJ Abrams approach of misleading the press.

Hibbard hasn’t provided any evidence that Bran won’t be in season 5, other than Nairn’s interview, and from his comments, it seems that Nairn’s interview is all that he’s basing his conclusion on.

What D&D said is “we’re doing one”, not “we can only do one” or “we chose to do one instead of the other”.

Honestly, I’m sorry that you hate Dorne so much but you need to stop acting as if it’s an unquestioned fact that Dorne is boring and the Iron Islands would have been better. That’s only an opinion. And in terms of the direction they’re taking it in the show (though admittedly, I agree that they are completely destroying what was in the book and building anew- and the new may well be terrible, it certainly isn’t looking to be amazing from the news we have so far in my opinion), who’s to say they wouldn’t have made changes to the Iron Islands arc as well? They would have made changes. A lot of them. The Kingsmoot might not have happened, just as thye Queenmaker plot won’t, Aeron and Victarion might have been cut just like Arianne and Quentyn, and for all we know Jaime and Bronn could have taken a trip to Pyke.

Basically, suck it up already. It’s happening. It’s been all but confirmed for a long, long time now. Same goes for the Griffs. Season 6 might allow a couple of new major castings, and I hope we get a Euron then. Otherwise, see ya Iron Islands.

1) Never bother with the Greyjoys in the first place. Probably wouldn’t work in hindsight because then Theon would never claim Winterfell and Bran would never leave.

2) Have Balon die as in the books, but then not introduce the uncles and get Yara to bow to either Stannis or the Lannisters. Puts us basically where we already are now but with a sense of resolution to the storyline. Kinda like when Renly died, his forces didn’t carry on without him. If they do need to cut the Greyjoys for time or because they are largely irrelevant in the end then this is heaps better than leaving it unresolved.

3) Do the kingsmoot back in season 4 when there weren’t that many new storylines yet, when the Greyjoys hadn’t been doing nothing for too long and when the storyline actually takes place chronologically within the books.

Essentially don’t start a storyline and then ignore it with no progression or conclusion.

4) Save Balon’s death and the introduction of Euron and possibly some other characters for season 6, when they wouldn’t have to introduce so many new characters.

… which is probably exactly what they’re doing

I agree with this. My suspicion is that Euron has too big a role to play to cut him entirely. My theory is that he is going to get control of at least one of Rhaegal or Viseryion. Now, if he sticks around in Meereen to try and join forces with Dany or if he high tails it to Westeros with his new dragon(s) to wreak havoc, I’m not sure.

I think it has to be assumed that Victarion is cut at this point. I can’t see them having a S6 story arc where he loses the Kingsmoot and makes his way to Meereen. It would just take too long. If they aren’t going to show that, then what point is there in having him in the show at all?

One way they could pull this off is have Yara return to Pyke in S5 only to be told that Balon has died under suspicious circumstances and, while she was away, his brother Euron has claimed the Seastone Chair for himself and set sail (for Meereen). Then, he can show up at the beginning of S6 (maybe Episode 1 introduces him as he’s at sea on the Silence, goes through his back story and the legend of the dragon horn, etc.) and follows his TWOW arc from there.

The prophecy (I think from Quaithe–could be in the House of the Undying) that warned Dany of all of the dangers she would face indicated that Euron would be the most dangerous of them all. He has got to make an appearance. Plus, he seems like a total badass that would be a great addition. I think Vic and Damphair are probably out, though.

I find that extremely hard to believe, HB. Plus the writer says:

I’m not saying S5 won’t have any Iron Islands scenes, only that my understand is the big book 4 subplot isn’t a part of S5.

Technically Balon Greyjoy’s death is book 3 not 4, and he only refers to the big book 4 Ironborn plot. If they do put that off for a later season it will be a bad decision IMO. It won’t have the same impact, I think since the three leaches should come one season after another at least! They won’t make a liar out of Mel, would they?! LOL

I suppose a lot of the S6 theory comes down to what the ultimate end game for the Greyjoys is, which is difficult to predict. If the Ironborn are relevant for _____ down the road, then it’d make a lot of sense. If it turns out they aren’t all that important, I don’t see why D&D would try to add new major players in the penultimate season. We know they’re trying to start contracting the universe as we speed to the finish.

It will do my head in if they don’t at least address Balon and Yara in season 5. I cant stand bad continuity. Ignoring the third leech just comes across as amateurish.

You didn’t actually read the article here, did you? The author confirmed that D&D told him (which happens often; EW and Hibberd get quite a lot of GoT exlusives) that only one of the two new storylines (Dorne and the Iron Islands) would be in season 5. Then Dorne was announced. So yes, this is true.

Also, none of this means Yara and Balon won’t be in Season 4. It just means that what’s generally refeered to as the Iron Islands plot is cut, that is: Euron declaring a Kingsmoot, Euron winning, the Shield Islands attack, Victarion going to Meereen, the Greyjoys raiding the Reach. Balon will have to die eventually and I assume Yara will have her latter ADWD material in the North adapted in some way this season. Just don’t expect any of Balon’s brothers, a Kingsmoot, an invasion of the Reach or a Greyjoy fleet at Meereen.

And who knows, maybe we get a small version of the plot in season 6, maybe just with Euron. We’ll see.

Maybe the leech sacrifice is limited to only one subsequent death per season?

NOOOOOOO!!! Why did they even bother setting up the Greyjoys as a faction in the show

Exactly. Just like they bothered to include the Brotherhood and Beric in s3, and the fact that he was resurrected by the lord of light, setting up LS. The amount of good stuff that they have decided to cut from affc/adwd is simply astonishing. I just don’t understand the choice to focus so much on Dorne. In fact, I don’t understand the majority of their adaptation choices since halfway into season 4.

I’ll be honest, I’m not looking forward to season 5. I’ll watch it, because i’m a big fan of the original story. But I feel like a lot of book readers that liked affc&adwd, myself included, will not be very happy next year when it airs.

Oh and you can be sure you won’t get Balon’s death. In D&D’s mind, the average viewer probably doesn’t remember him anyway, or remember the fact that Stannis said the name of 3 kings when he tossed the leeches in the fire, and only two of them died. It’s ok though, instead we’ll get one extra scene of Jaime doing random funny stuff in Dorne. So much better.

I never thought they could do both with a 10 hour season and only 7 seasons.

One way they could pull this off is have Yara return to Pyke in S5 only to be told that Balon has died under suspicious circumstances and, while she was away, his brother Euron has claimed the Seastone Chair for himself and set sail (for Meereen).Then, he can show up at the beginning of S6 (maybe Episode 1 introduces him as he’s at sea on the Silence, goes through his back story and the legend of the dragon horn, etc.) and follows his TWOW arc from there.

I could deal with this. If Balon’s already dead and we just didn’t see it on screen, that’s fine. But if he survives through to season 6 then it is way too late for the leech to take effect.

Yep. The moment they changed their minds from 8 seasons as a possibility to only 7 seasons, it was clear that some major cuts were coming. Now way in hell could D&D adapt the entirety of AFFC and ADWD, plus some TWOW stuff for Sansa and at the end of some of the other arcs, into one season. That would be closer to a season and a half of material. They’re better off cutting whole portions than cutting bits and pieces all around. At least the other arcs will be good by themselves, and not rushed.

It really is a bummer that they can’t do 8 seasons, but 7 is all we get.

Oh… so many assumptions in so few sentences. First, some storylines are storylines for their own sake, not just foreshadowing or setup. That’s a rather dry and mechanical way in which to view the story. People liked the Brotherhood without Banners and were none the wiser that it was setting up LSH, and if LSH is indeed cut they will still be. There’s not a problem with that at all. It served a function for the character of Arya, the Hound and for the worldbuilding of the show (resurrections, magic returning.)

Also, you assume that all the cuts are “to focus so much on Dorne.” We don’t even know how much of Dorne we’ll see, so what are you even talking about? Also, how would you yourself plan the season? I don’t think you’ve actually thought this through. Many people obviously haven’t. D&D have.

Please consider that at least most story lines must have a satisfying conclusion, a climax, an arc for the characters, so their stories must generally end with the climaxes of AFFC / ADWD; you can’t just cut them in half and stop there. It only worked for Season 3 because of the Red Wedding in the middle of ASOS; there’s nothing like that in AFFC or ADWD, and honestly, even the “S3 / S4″ split of ASOS resulted in some characters suffering. Stannis, no doubt. Also, I love Arya and the Hound, and their character development was great, but in terms of plot they stretched out two chapters for a whole season.

So, without a split that would cripple the story arcs of pretty much every character, you now have to arrive at the end of each of those storylines in one season… but you must have enough time with each character so that the story is emotionally satisfying. There has to be some character development. So what do you do, without magically time traveling and producing another 10 episodes? You do what you gotta do: focus on the characters we’ve already known for 4 years and cut what can be disposed of. You know why Jaime is in Dorne, partly? To justify the time the show will spend in Dorne.

Also, the only other option is to literally follow the book structure: adapt AFFC in season 5 and then ADWD in season 6. But that’s completely out of the question, not only because it’d be a disaster in terms of storytelling and critically but also because it’s contractually impossible due to the actors. Just as impossible as producing 10 more episodes (or 5, or 2); there’s literally no more time, even if they had more money, unless we were willing to wait another year between seasons. And even if we were, HBO wouldn’t.

It’s a difficult decision that D&D have made, but it’s a decision I respect. I hope some of you actually think some more about this, because if you do, you’ll understand why they did so. I’d like to see some of you do any better, considering the main focus is creating a satisfying story with satisfying arcs for their characters, even if it means going against the books. In this case, following the books would damage the other storylines we all know and love, which some of you don’t seem to realize.

Also, Natalia Tena basically confirmed she’s back:

What Hibbard failed to say was the reason why they chose Dorne over the Ironborn.

Conan Stevens, who D&D both want to play Euron, was available to shoot this summer due to a prior obligation to portray a CGI shit stain in an upcoming German Scheisse video.

I thought Conan Stevens was under contract to play Daario in season 6… Does this confirm the Daario=Euron theory??

I just can’t understand, D&D being such fans of the books and do something like this, I think they’re just fans of the first 3 books, they say all the time that if they could get just to the red weading they would be fine. But I hope that it’s just like you guys are talking about, maybe they’ll build up the greyjoy storyline in season 6, but at least give us starter in this one, like balon dying at the end and a glimpse of Euron or even just talk about him would blow my mind

But he had played the Mountain already. Their affirmation was before season 1, right?

Also, he’s a much more Victarion than Euron.

I agree that fans should not be so quick to condemn the assumed direction of S5 and the show in general. For three reasons:

3) B&W are privy to where the story is going and we aren’t. This puts them in far better position than any of us to determine which story arcs are muscle, which are fat and what modifications can be made to still culminate the major points to where they align with the books when it’s all said and done.

There’s room to love both the books and show and still be confident (with what we know so far) that the show will continue to do the books justice.

Let’s assume they get 8 seasons (or 9!), that there’s no issue. What is your suggestion here

Adapt AFFC in Season 5 and ADWD in Season 6? They can’t. Contractually impossible because of the actors. Also it’d probably be a storytelling and critical disaster, but that’s besides the point.

Cut AFFC and ADWD in half, adapt the first halves in Season 5 and the second halves in Season 6? Well, yeah —if you want the story arc of pretty much every major character to be crippled and have absolutely no climax in Season 5. It only worked for Season 3 because of the Red Wedding right in the middle of ASOS, and even then there were some issues; Season 3 adapted more than half the book, and pretty much all of it for some storylines, so Season 4 had to resort to material book 4 and 5 for some characters, and reaaaaaly stretch it out for others, such as Arya and Jon. Also, some characters suffered greatly because of the split. Consider Stannis: in the beginning of ASOS he was down after the Battle of the Blackwater, but had his greatest comeback ever by the end of the book. The show had to stretch his depression out for two seasons and it indeed depressed most people.

The first option is ruled out because it’s literally, legally impossible and the second because it’d be a terrible idea and Season 5 would have the most disappointingly unfinished arcs ever. After that, we have another option:

Cram everything from AFFC & ADWD into Season 5? Well, they could, and they could be faithful as hell, but then you’d only get the major plotpoints from each character —a couple minutes of them per episode, and in each something major happening. Forget about character development. You think the characters’ motivations and inner desires and troubles and complexities have been simplified or whitewashed in the past? Well, imagine what would happen if Season 5 had to focus on every major plotpoint, instead of the emotional beats from the characters we already know.

Considering all of that, is it really a bad idea to adapt the whole of AFFC & ADWD into Season 5 but have some things cut or simplified, especially the new storylines? How exactly would any of you do it any better, even on paper? Because I’d like to see that. I honestly would. I’d rather have a satisfying season with rich story arcs for characters who we have cared about for years now than having a technically more faithful season in terms of the plot but which would actually be devoid of any spirit because it’d have no time for the characters; or two seasons, the first of which has literally no climax for pretty much any of these characters we care about so much.

BTW, on second thought, Tena’s “confirmation” is not so, not really. I was led to believe she had answered to “Will you be back?” with “Well… (coyly)… I hope so… Yes”, but it’s more like “Well, I hope so, yeah.”

Balon death is just swept under the rug like the Frey’s deserting Robb

AFFC/ADWD apologists? Lmao sorry for liking the book?

Because the Orson Lannister monologue or the “Podrick the SexGod” were such milestones of character development

Show watchers don’t care about them cause the show producers don’t care about them. (Look at the Ironborn’s deadliest fighters fleeing from a shirtless Ramsay)

” he offered us our best view yet of the show’s iteration of the Shy Maid, upon which Tyrion and Jorah will no doubt become well acquainted.”… I’m sorry (not sorry); I choose to read this and think: This is Gendry! #whereistheBull

Liking the books and being an apologist are different things. That you reacted so strongly to my post hints at where you fall on that scale.

Yes, I’m sure we could squeeze the whole Iron Islands storyline and everything else that’s missing if we just cut the beetles monologue, the Grey Worm / Missandei thing and whatever else you personally may find redundant. I’m sure those… 10 to 15 minutes will be more than enough to portray that storyline just as you imagined. These are whole new storylines we’re talking about; investing time in them is narratively more “expensive” than inventing what you consider filler for existing plotlines. No, cutting invented tertiary characters or these small scenes wouldn’t be nearly enough to add the things you want to be in.

I think a lot depends on how important the Euron/Ironborn/Oldtown/Citadel/Samwell/Jaqen storyline is to the overall end game.

If that whole storyline is cuttable, they could save a lot of time for other things by just killing off Balon and leaving the Ironborn leaderless and out of the game. The biggest problem with this (other than its potential, but unknown to us, endgame importance) is that it would mean they basically have to just make shit up for Sam, Gilly, and Aemon for the rest of the series.

If this storyline is important to the end game they could still get it in pretty easily. Here’s how:

The Kingsmoot itself is totally cuttable. Balon died. Euron showed up and claimed the crown. Damphair said, no, let’s have a vote first. They had a vote, and Euron won anyway. With Yara already off in a position to be captured by Stannis (and Daenerys already having ships), they can cut out the voting, and cut Damphair and Victarion. Balon dies. Euron shows up and claims the crown. End of story. You don’t even need to cast Euron for S5, just show Balon seeing Euron’s ship approaching Pyke, and deciding to go down to the shore to send him away/kill him, but then “slipping” as he crosses the bridge.

The conquest of the Shield Islands can (and should) happen off screen. Naval battles are very expensive to film. Naval battles involving a bunch of characters the audience doesn’t care about conquering a few islands the audience has never heard of would be a horrible waste of money and screen time. It can happen off screen during S5 and be reported to Cersei by the Tyrells, who want to send ships back home to defend their lands.

Likewise, the raiding along the Mander and near Oldtown can happen off screen, and perhaps we could see a bit of wreckage in the water, and Oldtown’s defenders on high alert when Sam & Gilly arrive there at the end of S5.

Sam’s actual visit to the citadel, and meeting new characters there can be held to season 6. In the book, it’s fine to introduce some new characters at the end of the book to tease the next book, but when you have to actually hire actors to play those roles, it makes sense to hold off a bit and introduce them at the beginning of the next season instead. Just end Sam’s arc for S5 with his ship approaching Oldtown.

This way, you can essentially cut the AFFC Iron Islands storyline from S5, but still have all the critical players in the right places to have whatever important stuff happens in TWOW/ADOS included in S6/S7. If gives them a bit of time to “build up” Euron’s reputation before actually introducing him to the viewers directly.

If you want to address the proud tradition of “German Scheisse” in film and television, in particular in television, please know your facts Mr.! It’s spelled “German Scheiße”, with a ß! (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻

Can’t say I’m surprised at all, honestly. As much as I would love to see Arianne and the other characters on screen, it became clear a while ago that they needed to be cut out to make the seven season storyline work. Even GRRM has been having trouble resolving all those plotlines, and he’s not working on a strict deadline like D&D. It makes sense they’d avoid introducing new storylines, not just to wrap it up in seven seasons, but to do it in such a way that Unsullied readers can get a coherent plot devoid of too many extraneous elements.

They’ve managed to keep Yara a part of S3 and S4 even though there was no narrative reason to do so (outside of giving her something to do until she re-enters the main story in later seasons). I’d be pretty surprised if she wasn’t a part of S5, even if it’s for just a scene or two. Since she’s headed back to Pyke, I imagine she’ll have a scene with Balon and I’d guess it would be to either set up or witness his death in order to set her S6 plot in motion. Probably a late season appearance.

I have never, for the life of me understood why so many fans are horny to see the Kingsmoot depicted on-screen. It’s a stale fish of a scene with a bunch of groups of characters we don’t give a shit about (outside of Yara) standing up and talking about how great they are and then being chosen by applause or whatever to be the new King of the shitty wasteland that is the Iron Islands. And Yara doesn’t even win it and goes off to sulk. That would make for some amazing television I tell’ya. Rivaled only by Victarion’s “adventures” at sea.

This is exactly my best hope for Season 5: a mostly dialogue-based setup for a highly condensed version of AFFC’s Iron Islands storyline involving Euron, who would be delayed until Season 6. That’s as much as I’m willing to hope from Season 5, although I don’t actually expect all of it to be in. But it’d be nice, and then have Euron in season 6 fulfilling whatever his role will be in TWOW. What I do fully expect in Season 5 is Yara doing her latter ADWD stuff in Season 5 (which can be condensed to “getting kidnapped by Stannis”) and Balon dying.

I’m constantly surprised by some people’s love of the ironborn. Is there any depth to them aside from “pirates are cool”? I’m sure there is for some people, and the latter Victarion stuff in ADWD was particularly enjoyable to me even though I don’t actually “like” the character, but… the Kingsmoot, really? When something is usually described as “badass” and little else is said about it by most people, I tend not to find it very entertaining.

I maintain that this is not a “seven seasons” issue. If you want to know what I think, read my previous ginormous post here. A TL;DR would be to say that, even with many other seasons ahead, AFFC & ADWD would have to be done in one season, or else lose in character development and/or fulfilling story arcs.

I fucking love this show but I do love me some Iron Men. However, I actually don’t give a German Scheisse Shit that they confirmed what we already knew.

So, without a split that would cripple the story arcs of pretty much every character, you now have to arrive at the end of each of those storylines in one season… but you must have enough time with each character so that the story is emotionally satisfying. There has to be some character development. So what do you do, without magically time traveling and producing another 10 episodes? You do what you gotta do: focus on the characters we’ve already known for 4 years and cut what can be disposed of. You know why Jaime is in Dorne, partly? To justify the time the show will spend in Dorne

Your entire post was on the money. You have to consider how a good show is made, how it is able to succeed over several seasons. And they certainly didn’t want viewers to have the same difficulties that readers had in those two books.

When I first read the books I skipped much of the Iron men plot; I found it too long and really boring, when I’d much rather focus on my favorite characters Subsequent reading showed me that they did have a place in the story But I can’t say i am at all concerned about the omission. Maybe next season..They need to focus whats on their plate for this season and make sure its done well

I always imagined that they will end season 5 with

balon’s death and yara comin back only to see the silence in the distance. The euron=daario theory makes a lot of sense for why they would keep delaying the intro of euron. I think victarion is actually one of the D&D’s fav characters so I dont see why they would cut them. Pirates are cool and everyone would love to see two badass pirates going head to head. I have learned to accept arianne getting cut but I really hope they didnt cut the griffs. Maybe they jus havent announced young griff since it would spoil too much somehow? I hope trystane=quentyn not young griff. Also maybe they can say arianne is locked away in the tower at sunspear so that they can cast her for season 6. Trystane falls for myrcella and tries the queenmaker plot because he finds out he is going to go marry dany and then it fails and he is sent to mereen. If they cut all of these characters what will the casting video look like for next year? There is no one left to add at this point so delaying the greyjoys is a smart move.

Damn! I was looking forward to Euron’s “Godless” speech.

I can’t say I’m sorry to have confirmation the Iron Islands plot(s) won’t be appearing in season 5. I wouldn’t mind getting a little bit in Season 6, but it was absolutely my least favorite part of the last two books.

Hi guys I was expecting this news but I am still disappointed. There are parts of the Ironborn story I really love (especially Euron) so I think it’s a real shame we won’t get them yet and maybe not ever.

I actually wrote a post about this on my blog the other day. Perhaps it will interest a few people.

I also wrote a post about the exclusion of Arianne Martell which I will link to just in case that’s of interest too.

Great, didn’t care about OSHA & this iron islands.

the only thing they’r good for is stealing what better men build

Grrrrr. That 3rd impotent leech is starting to piss me off. They are just teasing the

Sullied at this point. S5 MUST have something to close this topic out or expand upon it.

I like this attitude. They’re probably saving the Iron Islands for later in the series. What is dead may never die!!

I’m more sad about losing “Aegon” and Arianne. Don’t get me wrong, I’d like all of the major book characters to be in, but I realize there is a budget and a limit to what they can fit in. The Greyjoy uncles are my least favorite major storyline in the books. Euron is the only one worth a damn, so I hope he makes it on the show somehow, but I would not miss the dullard and drowned priest.

Now, bring me Wyman Manderly, right meow!

Ok I’m a wee bit drunk and a lot bit horny so why don’t we take over this thread and turn it into a “Who in ASoIaF would you Bang, Marry, and Kill” thread. I’ll start.

Bang: Mel. 1) I already do and 2) she seems like the kind of girl that wouldn’t care if you didn’t call her the day after. Am I right?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3jNasQ-oGk is a recent interview with Owen Teale by Flicks and the City . He mentions S5, and the role Alliser has (albeit vaguely)

I enjoyed your options. It does seem like the showrunners are teasing us with their endgame knowledge. I just want some closure for the fookin’ leech! I agree that they could condense the storyline significantly….Heck, why don’t they have some faceless dude whack Balon and then name Yara Queen? Anything! I just want something to happen to acknowledge it.

The only events that you mention that seem connected to the final battle of ice and fire is Sam arriving in Oldtown to meet Maester Marwyn who studied with Mirri Mas Dur and understands the glass candle–and oh yeah Alleras (connection to Dorne). The rest is stuff that just moves tertiary characters around so that they in turn can move primary characters to action. D&D can use other existing tertiary characters for the same purpose and save money and time. It is the run down to the end game now, so only those events from the books that expediently move the major players in to position will make the show. I fully expect that the cast of characters and events in Oldtown (if it is even in) will be drastically cut despite the connections to both the Wall and Dorne, and only expect that line to continue if it contributes significantly to the end. Maybe none of it will be important or can be taken on by other characters. Thanks to a lack of source material, we just don’t know. At this point, D&D must be planning backwards from the end to make it all work thanks to all of the lines being laid out without closure when they started. Remember, they didn’t get the end game from GRRM until just before last season, so much of what was included in earlier seasons may be left to twist in the wind or be summarily cut short to drive the story to its conclusion in the promised 7 seasons.

I never understood the Iron Islands love either. The only nugget I took from the whole plot was that Euron has seen the world and knows something of the magic that is re-entering the world. The rest of the characters had limited scope (except Yar-Asha and Theon of course). No loss to me without them.

I do want closure on the leech tho. Just one freaking line! Just tell us he’s dead and move along, for Pete’s sake! Sheesh!

Possibility: Cut their losses, and try to mop up as best they can. Yara returns and Balon is dead. No Euron. He just died, fell off a bridge. Woops. That happens. Happened to Robert, for instance. So. Yara becomes leader of the Iron Islands, decides to actually pursue her re-conciliatory strategy that she articulates in her Kingsmoot speech in the book, and goes north to negotiate some kind of deal with Stannis as he marches south to Winterfell. Anyways, somehow they get mucked together, just like ADWD, either as Stannis\' prisoner or as a legit military ally.

Septa Lemore, Val, and book!Asha….in no particular order.

Interesting to see how Yara’s arc plays out with the cutting of the Feast plot.

I feel she will be present for the Leech consequence, and then will go to Stannis and yield so she can exact revenge on the Bolton’s.

Still confused over the Bran’s in/out/in/out…getting a headache!

Well they took a day off in Osuna, probably to install paparazzi proof screens, etc. around the plaza. Those pics were major spoilers and for once I wish they had never been taken, betcha the photographers made quite a bit of pesos for them though.

Appears that the fog machines were present to create an early morning mist and not a certain book event as many previously theorized.

I read somewhere that Ian McElhinney who was being interviewed for a play he’s directing, mentioned he had completed all his scenes for the show, I hope he meant season and not series.

Ok I’m a wee bit drunk and a lot bit horny so why don’t we take over this thread and turn it into a “Who in ASoIaF would you Bang, Marry, and Kill” thread. I’ll start.

Bang: Mel.1) I already do and 2) she seems like the kind of girl that wouldn’t care if you didn’t call her the day after.Am I right?

Barristan is an example of a wasted character on the show. Should have left him out all together if they weren’t going to make good use of him.

I likely. However, If I could bang Jorah’s Sweaty V Neck, I would.

Balon, he mysteriously falls of a bridge during a hellish storm. (tee hee!)

Yara tries to lead the Ironborn against Stannis but loses across the board.

Theon, he is all over the north as Stannis and the Boltons duke it out. He plays an integral role in the end of this season and the beginning of the next.

My contention is that the spoiler chapters for Winter were released when it became evident that the show would spoil them in Season 5 otherwise. We can even see the curtain closing on Season 5 with lots of cliffhanging; Battle of Meereen undecided, Dornish plot initiated, the Boltons apparently defeating Stannis off-screen, the pink letter, the death of Jon, the walk of shame.

The book comes out, then we get the book on screen in Season 6.

Season 7 spoils just a touch of Dreams as they save the conclusion for the cinema and the release of the Dreams.

Kill: Sue, but then only so I can give her the breath of life and resuscitate her.

If there was a cuddle option, Ser Jorah and his big furry body would be my choice. Gotta love the Old Pedo Bear.

Only braindead morons would like the Greyjoy Nuncles. Good riddance D&D.

I know, but “marry” is tough. The only possibility I could think of is Doran (looking like Siddig, of course). Then I started thinking how problematic the gout could be (we’re talking marriage, after all). Now, if he allowed me to continue to bang Darkstar, if I felt like it, that could solve that. Jamie is another option, but he presents his own problems.

“Kill” is tough, too, because as much as I want Walder Frey, Roose, and Ramsay to die, I think killing Cersei may be best for the realm, and thus my life with either Doran or Jamie.

What is dead may never die….unless Benioff and Weiss get their hands on you and then you’re dead for good to never rise again, not harder or stronger.

Am I the only one who pictured the Shy Maid to be significantly bigger? I guess on the show it’ll only have 2 or 3 people traveling on it, compared to 8 in the books. It probably won’t even be named.

David Benioff said at Comic Con this is the final season for an influx of new characters, and starting season 6 is when they will begin to bring it all together and start to tie it up.

Although that’s not final confirmation, if he was telling the truth and that is the plan, this is essentially curtains for the Greyjoys in the TV adaptation.

Final season for an influx makes sense. I don’t think that that rules out Euron though.

Everything the Greyjoy uncles do in AFFC/ADWD can be explained in some brief exposition if they decide to include them in season 6. This doesn’t really bother me. Something had to go and this was the easiest cut. I’ve never understood the hard on people have for Euron and Vic and always thought they’re less important than people thought. If they can squeeze them in, great. If not, I understand.

One only needs to look at True Blood in its last few seasons to understand why constantly introducing new characters and subplots isn’t the best decision for TV.

Yes, an influx is Doran,Obara,Nymeria,Tyene,Areo,Trystane,Kindly Man,Waif,High Sparrow, and Septon Unella. Several new recurring characters in multiple storylines. Euron is one character.

Marry: Jon. If he can get out of his vows. He’d make a good husband. He’s nice and sensitive, but without being a pushover. Plus, he’s potentially either lord of Winterfell or the king of Westeros. Hypergamy FTW!

Kill: Victarion. He’s an idiot. The Westeros equivalent of a douchey frat bro.

Then again, to balance the argument, BB’s 5th seasons (pts 1 and 2) introduced several new characters that led to the most stunning and crazy episode of all (Ozymandias). As long as the new characters’ arcs lead to dramatic interactions with the primary/known characters, interesting things can happen in good hands.

My assumption is that if whatever Vic and Euron do in Essos with regards to Dany is relevant to the endgame, the show will put Yara on that path instead of them. This gives us a POV of a character the audience understands and is familiar with as opposed to someone entirely new introduced late in the game.

I have my doubts about the role that Asha will play in the books now that Theon is with Stannis. I don’t know if there’s a big point in her being involved intimately with that storyline and the only reason I think Martin had her captured by Stannis is because he desperately needed a POV character to tell us what Stannis was up to on the way to Winterfell and there were no other candidates he could use. Now that Theon’s there to provide us updates, I wonder if Asha fades into the background somewhat. As the show isn’t hamstrung by this narrative device, they might find a better way to keep her involved by having her sub in for other Greyjoys, thus condensing and simplifying the overall story.

I know it’s a popular thing here to hate on the Greyjoys, but according to Twitter and Facebook comments, most Sullied who use social media are pretty pissed.

And me too. Me and my subjectivity would like you to fuck off, D&D!

Some folks are even losing interest in S05 because of Arianne and the Greyjoys ommision. I’ll watch, but i certainly won’t be so excited about it.

Then again, to balance the argument, BB’s 5th seasons (pts 1 and 2)introduced several new characters that led to the most stunning and crazy episode of all (Ozymandias). As long as the new characters’ arcs lead to dramatic interactions with the primary/known characters, interesting things can happen in good hands.

The difference being of course that Breaking Bad didn’t have to service 30-40 other established characters before adding a couple new ones to the mix. GoT is bursting at the seams character and storyline-wise as it stands. That’s the main reason you can’t just add a whole new group into the mix unless it’s absolutely necessary (like Dorne almost assuredly is).

Well that sucks, but it’s not exactly a surprise.

Fjordgazer, The thing is if you are annoyed by something you are more likely to comment than if you are nonplussed, or happy, on something like Facebook. Something had to give. Besides in HBO’s/ D&D’s minds unsullied are more important than sullied, which makes sense as they make up the majority of the audience. And unsullied will be overwhelmed by too many new characters.

Agree with this completely. BB had a tiny cast, whilst the new characters only replaced dead characters. The Greyjoys would only be adding to the already stretched cast.

And there are millions of unsullied who are lucky they won’t be inflicted with Victardian the dullard and the other pirates who get their asses kicked literally every time they face quality adversaries. Give me brains over overrated brawn any day. Doran > Vic and Damphair.

King Tommen: GoT is bursting at the seams character and storyline-wise as it stands.

I love your line above…it’s a beautiful thing, isn’t it? What an experience this tale is. I just view GoT’s robust nature with enthusiasm rather than concern. When known PoV characters get blatantly omitted (or forgotten as is this case, it seems), one can’t help but think that the showrunners are truly spoiling the Sullied with their “budgetary” and containment concerns, directing our eager eyes to the main storylines. We know better than that…in ASoI&F, what goes on in the periphery is just as fascinating.

Does a “conservation of story” theory really apply with ASoI&F? Is every move that D&D make from now on a possible spoiler for us? Or are they picking and choosing from a bunch of fascinating tales, intentionally/contractually leaving some for the author to navigate prudently, to get to the endline? My soul wants to believe that the ironborn matter…but perhaps not in the visual story.

I am inclined to believe most characters GRRM has introduced in ASOIAF “matter” it’s more a question of to what degree they matter. I think there are a number of characters who serve more as a narrative tool to perform a task in order to move the plot forward for the more important characters.

And if it’s the action or task that is important and not really the character themselves, then the question the producers will have to ask is, “can someone else who we’ve already introduced do this instead?”

Although I have no proof of this, my best guess is that the Ironborn uncles are in ASOIAF to service the bigger story of Dany coming to Westeros and probably not a whole lot more. I have serious doubts that the uncles will end up interacting with the important Greyjoys that the readers/audience actually care for (Theon/Asha). So if they’re more a means to an end, why would the show bother devoting precious time to establishing them? Whatever plot points need to be covered off, there can be a write-around to allow for other characters or circumstances to make that happen.

Again, I’m of the opinion that if a storyline has been omitted then it is because D&D already know where the story is going, so naturally they will remove anything that isn’t necessary. You can’t expect everything from the books to translate well to TV.

Spanish is her mother tongue. She grew up in England, but mostly always spoke Spanish with her parents. I’ve heard her interviewed multiple times where she will switch between the two languages essentially as a native in each.

On a side note, apparently she can also speak Basque (her father is a native Basque speaker). I haven’t heard that though – just from a Spanish interview, in which she was described as speaking all three (English, Spanish, Basque) “a la perfección”.

Chickenduck: Spanish is her mother tongue.She grew up in England, but mostly always spoke Spanish with her parents.I’ve heard her interviewed multiple times where she will switch between the two languages essentially as a native in each.

On a side note, apparently she can also speak Basque (her father is a native Basque speaker).I haven’t heard that though – just from a Spanish interview, in which she was described as speaking all three (English, Spanish, Basque) “a la perfección”.

What does she say about coming back into Game of Thrones?

What exactly is she saying in that interview? Is there a confirmation either way about Season 5 or is it more about how she’ll be back down the road?

It’s so funny….I’ve gone from “fuck the ironborn” to “save the ironborn” in a span of a few WotW threads. Just give me a little leech love, please…?

I’d still hold out hope for that if only because they very much seem like they want to keep Yara involved in every season.

My read on the Hibbard quotes is when he says “major Ironborn story” he’s referring to the Kingsmoot and Victarion’s chapters. Yara and Balon are already established on the show and won’t be “cut” at this point.

OK I’ve watched it now, it’s about 2 seconds of answer.

All she says is in answer to the question “Will we see you again in Game of Thrones?” and she says “Yes for sure”

Nothing else. No idea if she’s in season 5, and nothing new to report.

Not cool. I enjoyed Iron Islands much more than Dorne on a reread. While they may not factor into the final outcome, they were conflicted tertiary characters with troubled family history and were blood thirsty warriors. Euron was the key but he is intentionally left mysterious while vic and damphair showed promise of being involved in some potentially awesome scenes. Cmon that zealot aeron summoning a krakken and vic terrorizing the high seas all the way to mereen.

Oh well. Maybe in the asoiaf lego animated series. Fingers crossed

Holy fuck that’s a lot of comments. I just rewatched Barton Fink with a friend and enjoyed some rye and coke expecting maybe twenty more comments to have cropped up, not around seventy!

It seems people like AFFC more than you often hear. Hmm. I imagine Euron could show up eventually but if there are ways around him they may take them. Who knows. Come the dawn, we shall see.

If you’re using True Blood as a comparison, they strayed miles away from the source material which is why it went shite. Hopefully GoT will learn from that. Unfortunately they seem to be changing an awful lot for Season 5. Nothing wrong with a large cast if you know what you’re doing.

But I lean towards liking the Iron Islands more.

I’m not surprised it’s been cut, but definitely somewhat disappointed. Here’s hoping it gets into Season 6 in some form at least.

Balon is probably going to die/be replaced by Euron offscreen…so that can be mentioned in S5 to close the leech hole and they can use it to build up Euron’s reputation before introducing him in S6. I have a feeling that either Yara/Asha or Euron will replace Victarion in the battle of Mereen…which will also be pushed back to S6. No Kingsmoot, no Aeron, no Victarion…but none of them are necessary to move the story along. This would even work if Euron is actually Dario since he is still present at the D, pit scene but could easily be sent away or take off afterwards…before he shows up as Euron or with the Iron fleet?

Well, to go off the BB comparison, I thought it was a shame that (BB spoilers)the final season ended with a confrontation between Walt and the neo Nazis. Most of the season was building up to a confrontation between Hank and Walt, with Jesse vs Walt also being a major theme of the last season, and that felt appropriate, because those were characters that were there from the beginning, that we had invested a lot of time in. Walt vs Hank turning into Walt vs Uncle Jack in those last couple episodes was actually pretty damn disappointing. Even Todd, who was actually a really interesting villain, felt out of place as one of the major villains in the last episode of a series that he was in a relatively small portion of.

Relating that to Game of Thrones, we’ve been teased about the White Walkers since the first episode, the dragons can find their own roots in that same hour, and from the get go the Starks, Lannisters, and Targaryens were the families most important to the series. They should play a part in the endgame, they’ve earned it. If Euron were to play a significant role in the endgame, it would feel tacked on, like BB’s neo Nazis, and would be really disappointing for me. Characters like the Greyjoy uncles or the Griffs have no right to be introduced so late in the story and demand as much significance (or more) than the characters I’ve been following since the beginning.

I’m partly venting about BB here (recently finished it) but I think it’s interesting that you brought up BB’s new character introductions as an examole of how final-act-intros can work, when I actually think they’re a good example of what I DON’T want GoT to do. I’m glad they’re cutting the fat, and I hope that as the TV series continues, it focuses on the major characters of the story instead of pushing the spotlight to numerous other characters that will never matter as much as the ones that got us to love the show in the first place.

All i know for sure is one thing: if the show starts flopping in S05, not by sticking too closely to AFFC/ADWD (as somewhat discontented readers predicted a while ago) but rather by straying too much from them as it seems to be doing, i’ll be getting a good laught out of it, regardless of how much one considers the changes actually contribute to its flopping.

The third leech is what will become Lady Stoneheart. It is known.

Considering what D&D do, this is VERY possible.

Nobody gave a shit about The Iron Islands in AFFC, but now that it’s been cut… “What? I loved them.” Well, I don’t believe you, they were all boring as fuck.

Speak for yourself buddy. Lots of us liked them from the beginning.

Pesos. Really? Because Spain is in South America now. Wow. Spain uses Euros, because, you know… it’s in Europe, and the EU and the eurozone. Before that, more than a decade ago, it used Pesetas. Pesos haven’t been used in Spain for centuries.

Calm down, peeps. I think it’s pretty obvious they just split the two story parts (Dorne & Iron Islands) for having one in each season (5&6).

And this is why we could have used more episodes per season.

Well. they should at least kill Balon, through Asha’s eyes. It’s incredible that he’s still alive, when he should have died in season 3 at the latest. Well, at least this is one decision that makes some sense, if you had to choose between the Iron Islands and Dorne, then yeah, choose Dorne, they are far more important, not only through what they’re doing, but because of all the backstory: Arthur and Ashara Dayne, Tower of Joy, the Martell plan, the Martell-Targaryen unions in the past. So yes, I understand taking out the Iron Islands, especially because they will probably not be that important later on…. but the Griffs and Arianne???

There’s not been a peep from him since he was proved wrong about Volantis. This news here may also prove some of his Ironborn teases wrong too…

And why the hell is this Daario = Euron theory still a thing? It’s the most ridiculous theory I have ever read. Well, apart from the Daario = Benjen theory.

They said they were doing “one of these two” in season 5. Not in the whole series. The plot is already incredibly heavy with new arcs and characters, it makes sense to not lose the audience with the Iron Islands on top of that. AFFC was great, but we can’t leave half the characters out of the story like it did, so it needs some adaptation.

So far, D&D have dealt well with introducing new characters subtly enough to make the viewers acquainted with them, mostly using the “guy you already know gets involved in some stuff, meets new guy, goes away, actually now you like the new guy, he does stuff, repeat” pattern.

The only true links we have with the Iron islands are Theon and Asha (I’m leaving Balon out because too little screen time yet for the viewers to feel more than “oh yeah, that dude” towards him).

In a TV narrative logic, the only Iron Island introduction that would make sense would be Asha coming home and being the center of the plot, at least at the beginning.

-> Asha is in season 5 and somehow everything is solved in a fingersnap; I don’t like it, and it’s not likely;

-> The Iron Islands (most of it at least) are postponed to season 6 and we have an actual arc centered around Asha; I like it and it’s more likely because :

-Balon had his magic leech and he is still alive. There are never been continuity problems with this show, so they will have to deal with it at some point.

-“Show, don’t tell” TV logic. In AFFC, we learn of Balon’s death through Aeron; in a book, it’s gut-wrenching, but on TV, it doesn’t work. We need to see it happen, and for the viewers to understand the impact, we need some more Balon screen-time beforehand.

-We also need an aftermath for his death; therefore of course we will have Euron, he’s just central to the whole thing and to Asha escaping the Iron Islands. If we want the Iron-borns to wreck havoc on Westeros like they will probably do at some point, there is absolutely no way Asha just -tadaaaaam ! – becomes queen in a puff of smoke.

More reasons to keep the Iron Islands in ? There you go :

-Euron is hot. This is a real reason. Not kidding or fangirling here. He is completely screwed up, machiavelic, smart, darkly funny, AND handsome; he’s basically a gift for HBO material. We don’t have anyone as high on the hot-crazy diagram apart from Ramsay, and it is something that works very well on screen. It would be easy to bring him in the show, and it would bring a lot to the series (think of an actual Asha/Euron convo). I can’t see him being cut.

-Potential in epic scenes. Pirate ships, drowning men, reaving… The Iron Islands are a lot of things, but certainly not boring. D&D only need to take their pick in epicness; plus, since basically everyone is against them, they can use them as antagonists whatever direction they wish to take.

TL:DR : Continuity with magic leech + TV narrative logic + diversity and easy-to-use potential of Iron-borns + faith in D&D because YES, they are doing a great job = Iron Islands for the win.

Not included in above reasons because it’s more subjective : great characters.

Call me a braindead moron if you like, but I really like the Greyjoy uncles.

Aeron is gut-wrenching in his desperate clinging to religion to escape Euron’s torments, and if they managed to bring up their relationship on screen, it would be hair-rising, while touching the very dark issue of family abuse.

Victarion is also a favorite of mine because of his lack of confidence in his own manliness driving him to crazy decisions, which is also a very deep subject.

So yeah, the Greyjoys aren’t flamboyant, smart or chivalrous, they keep making terrible decisions, but that’s the whole point of them : they’re human beings trying to deal with their inner frailty in a world of toughness. They are touching, they are deep down the opposite of the cliché pirates they would like to be (friendly reminder that Victarion is just hoping for a family of his own), and I love them for that.

These: (not filming news, just about the economic benefits for Osuna. Still pleasant news though)

At least we’ll get the most boring storyline in all of AFfC, which says a lot.

One thing that I thought of which would be the ideal way of introducing Euron (I have no idea if someone already thought of this): making him first appear in the House of Black & White this or next season, while Arya is there, contracting the faceless men. It could initially shroud him in much-needed mystery if he’s a well-known actor, while linking him to character we know (Jaqen and Arya), and linking the Ironborn storyline into the overarching plot.

I absolutely hadn’t thought of that but YES ! That would be great, and enough to introduce a potential “gasp-moment” if, say, Asha comes home to find him around… and only the viewers know. Yes, I could see that work !

Especially because it’s hinted at in the books that Euron indeed did hire the FC to kill Balon before coming home.

Are the spoiler bars and the edit option gone for anybody else in firefox?

I remember when Euron wasnt in season 3 after all.

King Tommen: The difference being of course that Breaking Bad didn’t have to service 30-40 other established characters before adding a couple new ones to the mix. GoT is bursting at the seams character and storyline-wise as it stands. That’s the main reason you can’t just add a whole new group into the mix unless it’s absolutely necessary (like Dorne almost assuredly is).

Not to mention that many people really disliked that the BB endgame revolved around a bunch of characters we’d never met before. I read a bunch of reviews/opinions that were critical of the whole neo-Nazi plot.

He should apologize immediately for his extreme ignorance. That was a severe insult, mixing up the currency of Spain.

For all we know, budget issues raised their ugly head. Hiring actors for two locations might have been cost prohibitive, so D&D went with the most important storyline. So don’t automatically blame them.

That feel when you will never see Asha talk sum mad shit to Lucas Codd.

You tell them! Unfortunately, Greyjoy haters feel like simplifying them (rapist scum!) in a way they wouldn’t with other characters they like.

Also, other than this site and Westeros.org, everywhere i look on the internet has turned “Jaime in Dorne” into a sort of joke a la Darkstar’s “I am of the night”.

You might want to call them a “vocal minority” if you want, but the evidence is there that a lot of people will stop watching, start hate-watching or even discouraging some Unsullied who aren’t even picking up the books in the first place (“Look, you don’t want to watch anymore, they’re ruining the story”; this is known to happen).

Of course, these were all risks D&D knew from long ago, i guess.

I google searches “Jaime in Dorne” and did not find many sites with those “what a joke” comments you were suggesting. Other than in Game of Thrones and ASOIAF fan sites I don’t see anyone even talking about this

doing more episodes would be too physically taxing on D&D. Filming in separate countries at a time is only really done for movies. 10 episodes is like making a 10 hour movie

I didn’t google it, but I have heard some book-reader friends complain (mostly because they were expecting some Jaime in Riverrun action).

However, I think it’s mostly due to automatic-grumpy-mode whenever there’s a change (not blaming anyone, I was a bit pissed off with it at first, too; it’s normal when you loved something in the books and were looking forward to seeing it on screen).

Call me optimistic, but I think complaints will settle down pretty quickly when the season starts – it’s difficult to get a good idea of what they’re doing now, but so far everything went pretty well (Bran at Craster’s, for example, was total WTF at first, and turned out pretty cool because it allowed some quality Bran character development).

We’re just grouchy old people waiting to be proven wrong.

I always assumed they’d cut both Dorne and the I.I. so at least I’m half right.

I still don’t see the point of including only the irrelevant characters in Dorne, tho. Wish they’d just cut them all. And then we wouldn’t have to suffer through more Bronn + Jaime “lulz”.

BTW, If Jaime doesn’t punch someone and say “Her name is Brienne.” I am going to write a strongly worded letter to D&D. Maybe he’ll punch Bronn, that would make me happy.

“You still have your famous hand !”

Another reason to hope for an actual Asha arc : kraken sass is gold.

The Unsullied audience for this show is far greater than the Sullied. That is who D&D are serving. In order to keep everyone’s interest, they need to make a coherent, exciting season out of 2 books that are frankly, very poorly structured and bloated with a ton of new characters and storylines that stray away from the great characters and storylines the audience and readers had invested much time in previously. GRRM actively ignores editor suggestions and these 2 books and their bloat are a direct consequence of that decision.

Cutting extraneous interactions and characters that aren’t really connected to the main story and having a beloved set of characters arrive in a new plot in order to hold the audience’s interest while integrating this new (important) group onto the show should in theory, help the audience enjoy this season more, not less.

You know how all those people whined and whined about the Jaime/Cersei sept scene and said a lot of things you mentioned in the paragraph above? The ratings for the show continued to increase throughout S4 so at the end of the day, just because a group of readers who don’t feel like they’re getting exactly what they want bitch and moan, it has zero affect on the popularity of the show.

If people stop watching the show, it will be because it has become uninteresting and unwieldy, not because it’s not including every new development from the books.

Unfortunately I have not been hired as a writer yet.

If BCog reads this, feel free to steal the idea.

Good counter punch, ser. I must admit that I am quite biased regarding BB and it is indeed a microcosm (much smaller scale) of what GoT’s challenge is. I just brought it up because the end of BB’s S4 signified the end of a great act (druglord Gus’s violent death), not unlike the end of GoT’s S4, which represents the end of ASoI&F’s first act. This is the perfect time to inject chaotic new characters/storylines to truly test the primary plot threads. And there is indeed good material to work with. I understand the need for “conservation of story” in this tale but I am more concerned about the spoilery nature of “picking and choosing” threads at this point. So many “What ifs” that could be explored….Yes, I am an insecure sullied who is still desperately holding onto the books-before-film fantasy.

Cheers for the 3rd leech! Maybe it needs some encouragement….

Only three responses to Bang, Marry, Kill? I guess I thought more highly of you Greatjohn of Slumber.

I think AFFC and ADWD could have made for a season and a half, with around the first third of TWOW (the battles, climaxes and the aftermath) to round it out. Season 5 would have been a bit slower and not as good as 4, but we would have gotten a fuller story with the Griffs and the Iron Born and probably Arianne as well.

That said, a tighter more explosive season 5 will be great (better than the hypothetical season 5), it’s just the show as a whole that may or may not suffer from these changes. We really don’t know what’s coming up in TWOW and if it’ll be any good, but what the show is doing in season 5 and on is very different.

You’ll already get a season and a half out of AFFC and ADWD. Remember, season 3 adapted about 60% of ASOS, more like 80% for a few storylines (Jon, Arya) and 100% for Bran. Season 4 had plenty of material from the fourth and fifth books. Everything but Jorah’s exile after Daenerys took Meereen in episode 5 was from ADWD; Bran’s whole story line as well; the first three “Reek” chapters were roughly adapted in-between Season 3 (the parts about Reek remembering his torture and training) and Season 4 (Roose chiding Ramsay, the Fall of Moat Cailin, and the Bolton army going to Winterfell); Brienne’s story roughly included most of her AFFC stuff, intelligently putting it earlier in the timeline so that she at least has a chance to find Sansa or Arya, as opposed to the books; Sansa’s entire plot from AFFC was in Season 4, but for the last half of her last chapter. And I’m sure I’m missing other things as well. They even succinctly took care of the ADWD/TWOW plot of Tycho going to Westeros to come to an agreement with Stannis.

I fully expect Season 5 to suffer as an adaptation of the books. Each season has been less faithful than the last, but the truth is that the ASOS split into Season 3 and Season 4 allowed them to have most of the book in there, and that won’t happen in Season 5. For many, it will fail as an adaptation.

However, I have high hopes for this incoming season as a television show on its own terms, which is what the show is for most people —and I do mean

, as in almost everyone. Season 3 and 4 suffered a bit from stretching out the ASOS story arcs of certain characters, such as Jon and Stannis. Arya, too —although I loved every minute of her with the Hound, I must admit the plot progression was next to null in season 4. Season 5 will not have this problem. Granted, Brienne’s, Sansa’s and Bran’s stories might meander a bit because they’ll have to invent stuff and in the case of Sansa and Bran maybe stretch out early TWOW material into a season. However, the rest of the characters have a season jam-packed full of thick plot, which hasn’t really happened in the show since Season 2. Season 1 (and book 1 as well) had the most cohesive, open-and-shut story; Season 2 didn’t get there, particularly for Dany, but the incoming threat of the Battle of Blackwater kept it together for most storylines. I believe Season 5 will be the first in a long time to feel this way, with characters starting a particular arc at the start of the season and ending it by the end. Matters of adaptation aside, combining the books is what provides them the opportunity to do this.

But that’s what we do best, ser, during the off-season….

Nice writeup, but I feel if something isn’t done about the ironborn storyline in S5, then we should fuggettaboutit and save its nuances for our reading pleasure. As others have suggested upthread, the GoT i.i. will probably be dealt with passively (Yara as principle; maybe some valor yet for Theon ) and their storyline values/trinkets/lores amalgamated into other shit, if at all. I like how you mentioned that Euron is a character gift for HBO…but it doesn’t seem like they will exploit that opportunity, Veltigar’s passion for MadsM notwithstanding.

At this point there really is little for me to get excited about for season 5. D & D are cutting out all the interesting characters from AFFC and ADWD that I like. And no introducing Euron or Victarion in S6 won’t work, it’ll just feel rushed. Plus they’re ruining Jaime’s arc

The show had a good run but True Detective and Fargo now have my attention. Season 1 will always hold a special place in my heart, it was perfect.

The funny thing is The Walking Dead seems to be getting better while GOT is regressing, D & D dun goofed.

I completely agree about the need of balance between “story conservation” of the characters we already have, and the introduction of new exciting material. Let’s not forget that there was a time when the Tyrells, Stannis team, the Boltons… were but secondary characters. The very strength of this show is the ability to turn them into central players and build up the audience interest in all the new storylines along with the former ones. So saying “people only want to know what happens to the characters they loved at first” does not make a lot of sense since most of these characters started from scratch at some point… We all cared about Oberyn despite him being in only one season, so I don’t think that’s really an obstacle.

Bang : Theon. Perfect combination of the careless lover you can do anything with without being judged, and secretely wounded boy that you can force-cuddle.

Marry : Doran. Need I say more ? Smart, incredibly strong, deeply gentle. That’s a catch.

Kill : Roose. Freaks me out like nothing else. Also, “don’t make me rue the day I raped your mother.” Like… Nope. Nope nope nope nope.

Yeah, that was rhetorical. I like freaking out too. My level of anxiety is directly proportional to the length of my posts (which says something about how much I care for the Iron Islands).

If we play that with only the Iron uncles, I would have to kill euron and bang Aeron. I don’t care about the crazy priest look, something tells me that dude would be 100% up for a doing-it-in-the-sea-fantasy.)

Wait. They are going to include the shy maid, but not the Griffs?? Why? Will they have Lemore? I really wanted to see the Tyrion-Lemore dialogue play out on screen.

I find it amusing how some folks are treating this as new. I also find that drinking excessive amounts make the god damn hammering gnomes inside my head work like a $5 Ho during Happy Hour.

I don’t doubt that you’ve stumbled across people who feel that way. The problem is that no matter what forum you frequent on the Internet, there are unlikely to be more than a few hundred or a few thousand people commenting there at the most. That’s an absolutely microscopic fraction of the Game of Thrones audience, and it’s heavily biased towards the sort of active fan who will be inclined to seek out like-minded individuals. Even a generally well-informed and well-intentioned website like this one where a wide variety of opinions are welcomed and discussed rationally can run the risk of becoming an echo chamber if we’re not careful. And even if you peruse many different forums (Westeros.org, Tumblr, Facebook, various entertainment websites like EW, YouTube, etc.), there are an enormous number of people out there who have read the books and/or watch the show, but never discuss it online. We should all enjoy the discourse, but we should never assume that the opinions we encounter online represent a consensus among the show’s fandom as a whole

I’m just kidding about the Youtube comments, BTW. If you value your sanity, you should never, ever, EVER read YouTube comments.

Last year, we learned that over 18 million viewers watch this show every week on HBO’s various platforms, which makes it the most popular show in HBO’s history and one of the most popular shows in the world. And that number doesn’t even count the millions of viewers who pirate the show, the millions of viewers who watch it on other other outlets across the world, and the people who are still catching up or will discover it in the future. Sure, some disenchanted viewers may stop watching an tell their Unsullied friends not to watch, and those friends may listen. But I’ve seen people engaging in that kind of activism since Season 2, and both the numbers and acclaim for the show have gone up every single year. At this point, those who are angry enough to stop watching or campaign against the show online represent such a miniscule fraction of the Game of Thrones audience so as to be rendered statistically insignificant. That’s not to say that their opinions are worthless, just that they’re not going to make a dent in the overall numbers or turn the tide of overwhelmingly positive public opinion against the show. Only the show can do that by taking a significant, sustained dip in quality – and that’s not going to happen just because they’re cutting a few relatively minor characters who, as we can see from the diversity of opinions here, are quite polarizing themselves.

There will be plenty of tits elsewhere and I’m sure a few muffs. May not be wet from skinny dipping, but dems the breaks.

I was just biding my time, and thinking this through a bit more, and waiting until I wasn’t so horny that I’d just eliminate “Marry” and “Kill” and go with “Bang, Bang, and Bang.”

Marry: Osha. I mean, really – Wildling ladies, if anything, have your back if you’ve got theirs. Fierce, protective, with no illusions about their role in the world. In short, survivors. Plus, when you marry someone,

. And let’s be honest – there’s no way Osha doesn’t know her way around when in the sack.

Bang: Brienne. Someone’s gonna climb that tree, and it’s gonna be me.

Kill: Catelyn Stark. I mean, bad decision after bad decision. Nice person, good mother, long as she stays in Winterfell. Kidnaps the son of the most powerful man in the Kingdom on a whim, though? Sorry, but that’s a problem to be taken care of as soon as possible.

The Walking Dead is a whole nother league of suck (okay, I’ll be fair, mediocre fun), and I can also assure you that if you read the comics you’d hate it much much more than you hate GOT. TWD is a pretty loose adaption, with more changes than GOT ever had.

And these changes that GOT makes don’t really make it better or worse- that can only be determined when the show airs. Hell, season 5 might be the absolute worst and you would be right, but I think it’s way way early to decide. Season 5 could also be the best, but only if you have an open mind.

Also, True Detective is meh IMO, I honestly can’t believe the reaction to it. It was carried by Mcconifgcwyvsr’s performance and Rust’s writing (which were mostly plagerized from some book). Otherwise, it was a typical crime drama that took itself way too seriously and had the most disappointing villain ever. Hopefully season 2 of that will be better.

On a quest to find the best ginger minge in Deadwood.

The first two TWD episodes of season 5 have been better than the majority of GOT’s S4 episodes.

The changes to Jaime’s arc are worse, believe me the character is going to be completely ruined. Fighting Sand Snakes smh D & D have lost the plot.

Thank you, thank you. We haven’t discussed how we’d handle three-ways, though.

I agree that the early Dorne stuff sounds worrying, but I’m hoping Doran and Jaime can salvage it. And the first two TWD episodes are only good by TWD standards. I’m sure you would have loved every minute of GOT season 4 if you were Unsullied (which you are in TWD). There really is no comparison.

Al Swearengen: On a quest to find the best ginger minge in Deadwood.

Please stop by FB. Lyanna and TW keep asking for you.

Being a book walker really has nothing to do with it. D & D’s writing skills really aren’t that exemplary. 90% of the stand out moments and best lines from the show come from George’s work. They’re above average writers who struck oil with ASOIF. The fan fiction stuff D & D have introduced into the show has been pretty poor, I still can’t get over Asha’s preposterous attempt to break Theon out of the Dreadfort, it was so abysmally bad.

Only if they talk dirty to me and use copious amounts of wax!

It’s so funny that, when discussing invented scenes written by D&D, all you people talk about is Yara’s attack on the Dreadfort (which, by the way, D&D may have devised in concept, but it was written by Bryan Cogman), or other similarly clunky additions; but you completely forget that some of the most critically celebrated scenes in the history of the show are invented moments between non-POV characters. Robert & Cersei; Robert, Barristan & Jaime; any scene —in fact the whole rivalry— between Varys and Littlefinger; most of Olenna’s scenes; Arya and Tywin; and I could go on and on. Whether you personally like these scenes or not, the fact is that they were critically celebrated by the press and many fans, plenty of whom were book readers. But yeah, I’m sure D&D are complete hacks.

Also, True Detective is meh IMO, I honestly can’t believe the reaction to it. It was carried by Mcconifgcwyvsr’s performance and Rust’s writing (which were mostly plagerized from some book).

TD S1 was an original work that referenced the philosophy of Thomas Ligotti and paid homage to a piece by Alan Moore. TD’s author, Nic Pizzolatto, has never denied that he used their works as inspiration for the Rust character. Characters in every work are amalgamations of previous ideas nurtured in an author’s mind. We are all

Are we also going to discredit Quentin Tarantino for ripping off Kung-Fu movies? Tolkien for ripping off Wagner? Come on….TD was excellent entertainment, with phenomenal directing, and Rust was a great character. The plagiarism accusation was an easy diversion for simple minds before the Emmys.

Andrew: Can I just say for the record that I think Isaac Hempstead Wright is, if not lying, giving deliberately misleading answers to the Bran question?

I seem to recall a lot of Doctor Who fans insisting the same about Matt Smith lying about not regenerating in the 50th (he wasn’t) and all of the former Doctor Who actors lying about not being in the 50th (they weren’t). If Hempstead Wright says that he’s in the season, then he’s in the season.

Given that all his best quotes came from one book, it’s hard I give TD any credit for them. The directing was great, though.

Don’t attempt to use Cogman as an escape goat for that scene, you know damn well D & D have the final say and map out the whole season before hand. They planted the inception of that idea in his head.

And the only interesting fan fiction stuff all happened in season 1. I have yet to see D & D equal the calibre of the Tywin skinning scene, they have regressed over the seasons.

Lord Hugh Ryvenholt: I just can’t understand, D&D being such fans of the books and do something like this,

. Being a fan of the story does not necessarily mean being a fan of all of the narrative and plot details. One of the problems with Crows in particular is that there are a lot of plot lines that contribute very little to the stories because they do not include principle protagonists. (Martin isn’t Tolkien: he relies entirely on protagonists to drive his stories.)

I find it amusing to see the “Dorne was worse” “No, the Iron Islands were worse!” arguments resurfacing: those were pretty big back in 2005 after Crows came out. The “why can’t we all get along” view among the fans was that

were pretty bad. Now, fans are only a fraction of the readers, and readers are only a fraction of the TV audience: but it seemed that the problem that even fans had was that the plot-lines lacking major protagonists felt somehow lacking. This is key: fans are much more tolerant of story less plot for the sake of plot than are readers or (especially!) viewers.

Now, D&D have partially rectified the Dorne situation by transplanting established characters into it. You don’t need the Riverlands to tell Jaime’s contribution to the story: you need Jaime to:

try and fail to be Tywin II due to the fact he’s accidentally grown a conscience

The Iron Islands were a much bigger challenge than Drone: what established protagonist could you transpose there and then communicate his/her story by trying to be someone she really wasn’t or trying to elevate him/herself to a higher level? Boosting Yara to a protagonist (as Martin did with Asha) would be a bad idea: the show has too many protagonists as it is. The single best thing to do with Yara would be to:

have her take over Victarion’s nearly storyless plotline.

(In the interest of full disclosure, I actually greatly preferred the Iron Island segment to the Dorne segment, if only because Asha was at least an established character, and it was easier to follow her contribution to the story; however, I definitely fell in with the “Dorne was worse, but the Iron Islands were still bad” camp.)

Oh jeez. I thought many fans and the press had found all of that “fan fiction stuff” I mentioned interesting, but I must have been wrong. I must have imagined all the positive comments about pairing Arya with Tywin, or the many characters who are developed much more in the show than in the books. I’ll reassess my opinion immediately to your objective standard.

Completely agree. I’d like to elaborate on the Jaime thing: Jaime needs to try and fail at being Tywin (“Tyrion’s Tywin’s son, not you”); to not physically be at King’s Landing when all goes to shit for Cersei; and to refuse her from a distance. Honestly, in ADWD he considers going to Myrcella and telling her he’s her father, and in general he thinks much more warmly about his children in AFFC/ADWD than previously. Anyway, Jaime can do all of that wherever, including Dorne —no,

Dorne, since putting a main character in a completely new storyline is a great idea, or else it could feel like a forced inclusion —especially by the fifth year of a seven or eight year show, when apparently all the pieces have already been set. Honestly, it’s not even completely off-canon: Jaime basically takes the role of Balon Swann, in the sense that he’s a kinsgsguard sent by Cersei to save Myrcella from Dorne, except he’s a main character so the role is expanded.

Let’s bring the house down on GoT for blatantly plagiarizing Monty Python in Dothraki during the siege of Meereen. Blasphemy, I tell ya!

Arya and Tywin had a bunch of great scenes in season 2, Cat’s scene about Jon in season 3, the Hizdahr scene in season 4, the White Walker baby making scene, Jaime trying to manipulate Tywin into helping Tyrion and realizing it’s Tywin manipulating him… And that’s off the top of my head. I’m sure I can come up with more.

Luka Nieto: Whether you personally like these scenes or not, the fact is that they were critically celebrated by the press and many fans, plenty of whom were book readers. But yeah, I’m sure D&D are complete hacks.

Heh, one must understand that FanBoys will always believe that adaptations are not just hated by themselves, but by EVERYONE!!!! Many Harry Potter fans will insist (despite all evidence to the contrary) that the first two Harry Potter films were much more popular than the subsequent ones. Many Tolkien fans will insist that the Lord of the Rings movies actually were not that popular.

Here is the analogy that I often use but that still works. A good book is like a Great White Shark. Adapting a book to movie or TV is like adapting a marine animal for terrestrial life: a lot of things that are needed to work in the marine realm are irrelevant or even counter-productive on land, and you need things on land that are irrelevant or counter-productive in the sea. The goal of D&D (or Peter Jackson or David Heyman) is not to toss a shark onto land and watch it rot. Instead, the goal is to make a Tyrannosaurus rex out of it. Fins, gills, etc., have got to go; legs, lungs, etc., are not “inventions” but replacements for things that worked in one medium but not in another. Things like the feathers on a T. rex might seem gratuitous: but that is something that comes with the new medium. If you communicate a top-level predator with excellent senses of smell and vision that can rapidly traverse great distances in order to hunt, then you’ve told the same story.

Fuck, I got poop all over my keyboard. Really should have washed my hands…

The Walking dead is so bad it is up there with smallville as being so bad that homeless people think its good.

Tormund and Jon’s “She loved you…all she talked about was killing you” scene.

I agree that when D&D follow the books the scenes are a lot better. I dislike all the added scenes because they kind of take you out of the world and remind you its a tv show. Season 4 really went crazy with added scenes for no real reason. Arya shows up at the bloody gate and then they just let her go with no questions asked? Crasters keep, dreadfort, greyworm and missandei, etc. Season 1 was extremely faithful to the books and it is what got me hooked on the show and made me read the books and then season 2 came up with the stolen dragons house of the undying king of qarth bs. If game of thrones doesnt want to follow the books anymore then i wish it didnt start out so faithful i prefer the adaptation of walkin dead compared to the comics because it just seems to work as two parallel worlds or something but game of thrones is just becoming frustrating.

Nope, still waiting for a scene that was even half as good as Tywin’s scene with Jaime in S1.

The baby making scene visually was stunning. You can’t really credit D & D there since there was virtually no dialogue and the look of the Wights are all down to George’s creation.

Hound vs. Brienne was alright. I got a kick out of seeing Sandor kick her in the snatch lel.

Arya laughing, Margery being a pedophile, Sansa becoming a player, the Hound’s chickens

But that’s the thing. The Tywin scene in season 1 is beyond amazing. Impossible to top, almost. There are still many great “fan fiction” scenes

If D & D were talented enough writers they’d at least be able to consistently deliver scenes that were in the same ball park. Their work from S2-S4 tells me they got lucky.

Dornish plot/Martells <<<<<<< Ironborn plot/Greyjoys (at least IMO)

I fully expect Season 5 to suffer as an adaptation of the books. Each season has been less faithful than the last, but the truth is that the ASOS split into Season 3 and Season 4 allowed them to have most of the book in there, and that won’t happen in Season 5. For many, it will fail as an adaptation.

Well said! S5 will prove to be the tipping point for many of the Sullied. I agree that it may fail as an adaptation (of the books for some) but not as a show.

I’m not wild about the changes that are being made and the characters/story lines that are being omitted. However, none of that will cause me to stop watching GOT. It is high quality production on many levels and still better than much of what it

I will have to completely change my viewing perspective in S5. It will no longer be the books that I read and loved…and that will have to be acceptable. It will be a different experience. Presumably, these changes/omissions are moving us toward the end game of the story. (And who knows – this may be the only “end” that we get if GRRM doesn’t finish.)

Glad we’re getting the useless Dorne plot with the wholesomely uninteresting Sand Snakes instead of the plot-relevant Greyjoys.

Well said! I agree with all of your points here. Personally, I have extremely high hopes for Season 5 as a season of television, and I believe that when Game of Thrones has ended its run in three years, it will fit in very well as part of an adaptation of ASOIAF as a whole. However, there’s no question that when judged against a strict standard where fidelity to the novel is all that matters, many people are going to condemn Season 5 (and probably Seasons 6 and 7 as well) harshly and unequivocally. That’s fine – everyone is entitled to their own opinion – I just know that I’m going to find it immensely frustrating to wade through the comment sections on the Season 5 recaps every week. But that’s a personal issue, and trivial in the grand scheme of things. I have every confidence that the end product is going to be well worth it.

That’s an exceptionally astute and visually memorable analogy. I never thought of the adaptive process in that exact way before, but I certainly will now!

Plot driven greyjoy storyline? I read the first three books and there was never any mentions of a magic dragon horn used by the Targaryens to control the beasts. Out of nowhere a creepy pirate dude who sounds like the cliche guy you don’t trust turns up with a magic horn and gives it to his idiot brother to get rid of him so he can be a king in the iron islands. The other dumbest part of their story is how the cliche dumb viking brute happily accepts to go catch a dragon and claim the queen as his own. Most smart readers know the greyjoy storyline was just shoe horned in the books so Dany would have boats to get her army back to westeros.

I for one welcome all of this… if only so I don’t have to listen to book-reader friends tell people how much they are looking forward to something they can’t talk about, with a smug smile on their faces.

Welcome to reality, everyone. Game of Thrones adapted three novels, used parts of a fourth and fifth, and then finally got to stand on its own. We were never, and I mean NEVER, going to see a completely faithful adaptation of ASOIAF because (a) there is no hope of George finishing the next book in the next 12 months, (b) forget the seventh novel appearing any time soon and (c) this is television. You can’t bench your actors, as the article writer stated. No, this is where GOT has to go, and is going to go – to wrap things up in much the same way as the novels eventually *might*, but in their own way. George R.R. Martin sold them the rights to adapt his books, and that’s what they’ve done – because there are only 5 books to date.

Personally, I have my reasons for thinking we’ll see LS at the end of this season (there was no reason for the Beric-Thoros scenes in season 3 except to convey the death-rebirth angle, and I think we’ll be seeing scenes in the Riverlands this year with Brienne) and probably some Iron Islands stuff in season 6 – but only to tie up loose ends. The producers of GOT have already proven they’re willing to shift things around, and bring characters back as needed (Allister Thorne, Lysa Arryn, Mance Rayder – and Jaqen H’gar this coming year).

This is my favorite show. I trust the producers to know what they’re doing. GRRM gave them a fantastic world to play in and a lot of memorable story – but he’s not the only one who can tell that story, and GRRM has given them all the tools they need to build on it.

This topic and the posts within have become a mockery of itself and is in dire need of a colonic.

If you haven’t heard the “new” Bonnie ‘Prince’ Billy album, I seriously recommend it. Sure it has reworkings of songs from his last album, but the fact that this guy can create cover versions of his own songs as stunning as the original versions is a true testament that he is one of the greatest songwriters of this generation.

And that, my fellow GoT nerds, is probably the best advice/comment in this whole thread.

In honor of Ros’ Merkin (who avoids this site due to all the book/show spoilers used freely in the comments), yes, I do spell narcissism as Adonis.

All of this. People who guessed there was no way the show would stay faithful after it heads into AFFC and ADWD were absolutely right. It’s a fucking miracle that they survived the first three books without straying too far.

lol at the Greyjoys being plot relevant. “I’m Victarion, a ship delivery man. I killed my wife after she screwed around and frequently use a dusky woman as a blowup doll. I’m definitely not going to die in the first five pages of TWOW!”

“I’m Aeron Greyjoy! My gracious god has granted me the unmatched ability to bore my enemies to death, and with it I intend to do nothing at all that justifies me being a POV character!”

“I’m Euron Greyjoy, and I’m an evil pirate. Look, I even have an eyepatch! I’m attacking a region no one gives two shits about, and maybe later I’ll do something important! For now I plan to hang dong in front of my brother.”

I am truly sorry that you prefer the Iron Islands over Dorne. It seems like there was room for only one of them, and D&D chose the other one. Just FYI, Dorne fans exist- like mwah.

NOoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!! At least this further confirms that Patchface is a troll, and that still we have hopes for LS!

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