Early Predictions for Game of Thrones Season Eight! 

Season seven is just behind us and the eighth … well, it’s very far away ahead of us, but it will arrive someday. Now, before there are any production spoilers to ruin our baseless speculation, we bring you our early predictions for the last season of

Who will live and who will die? Is that a fair metric we should use to judge the show? How conventional or subversive should we expect the conclusion to be? Will our craziest theories come true? We try to answer all of that and more — below the cut.

Luka: Each year, before there are any spoilers, I dutifully write my predictions, and then modify them as information comes in, so I can piece together the story as best as I can. But my initial predictions are always fun to look back on. So this is an exciting time.

at making predictions, though. Let’s just get that out of the way. So, everything I’m about to say is going to be wrong.

Luka: Don’t worry. Maybe, out of all of your wrongness, we’ll get to triangulate the truth!

Luka: The White Walkers have breached the Wall. In “Dragonstone”, Jon declared that Eastwatch, Last Hearth and Karhold must be manned because the Night King was last seen in Hardhome; these Northeasternmost strongholds will be the first line of defense. Eastwatch has fallen, so I’m afraid young Ned Umber and Alys Karstark and their respective ancestral homes will be the next casualties in this new War for the Dawn. I don’t necessarily think we’ll get to see the castles fall, but I bet we at least hear about it.

Petra: There could be a montage of these strongholds falling to the White Walkers and these minor characters dying at the same time, though it wouldn’t really happen that way. That’d be a pretty tragic way to open: poor little Ned’s and Alys’ last stand.

Luka: We might see something like that as part of a minor time jump of a few weeks, as we did with the taking of Casterly Rock and Highgarden. The showrunners might want to show these showdowns in some way, in a filmically interesting montage, though certainly not in an expensive, elaborate battle sequences. After all, as unfortunate as the deaths of Alys and Ned would be, we can’t say these are characters we care about, beyond the fact that they are blameless children. But there are major characters in immediate danger as well. What fate do you believe awaits Beric and Tormund?

Petra: I think they’ll be okay… for a short while. They probably won’t make it to the end. But it’d be very silly if they narrowly survived the Wall falling at the end of season seven only to be killed off in the opening scene of season eight, wouldn’t it? They can die in the premiere, but not the first scene. Will we just open on Tormund and Beric’s dead faces?

Luka: They may survive the opening scene, but I’d bet they’ll die early on nonetheless. Soon after watching the finale I’d have thought they’d survive for a good while, because Beric and Tormund would be the ones to go to Winterfell and warn them about the Wall. Then I realized that, of course, Bran saw it all through the ravens. So there’s no need. There are six episodes left and they might want to start off with a bang, and here we have two relatively expendable characters who are already in quite a pickle.

Petra: I like both of them. It’s gonna be sad.

Luka: We’ll be losing two of the great voices, by the way.

Petra: Oh, yeah! Maybe they can still sing and play with the

Luka: In this strange show, most of the cast has shared a location

: Winterfell for Robert’s arrival in “Winter is Coming”; the Red Keep for Joffrey’s wedding in “The Lion and the Rose”; and the Dragonpit summit in “The Dragon and the Wolf.” Yet another congregation of characters may be right around the corner, in the very next episode. The Stark children were the only main characters missing at the summit, but now all of its participants are heading to where the Starks live, except for Cersei and her ever-dwindling retinue. Speaking of whom: Jaime, of course, is heading North, having deserted his sister at long last. What do you think our oathkeeper will find there?

Petra: Some means of redemption, hopefully. It’ll be an interesting callback to season one if Jaime returns to Winterfell. It would add some poignant circularity to his story if becoming a better man entails returning to the site of his greatest crime (in addition to potentially having to kill his second mad monarch, but I’m sure we’ll get to that later.) Anyway, I don’t have a clear idea of what might ensue once he arrives in Winterfell.

Luka: As I see it, Jaime will offer his services to Daenerys, and probably be quite ready to admit the attempted murder of Bran and face the consequences. Plenty of people will call for his head, but Bran will declare some weird raven shit about his fall from the tower being crucial in his journey to raven weirdness, thus exculpating Jaime. And then Tyrion and Brienne will intervene on his behalf regarding his intentions going forward.

Petra: It could be a pretty powerful summation of Jaime’s arc if, in one scene, all these characters, particularly Brienne, come forth to testify to how much he’s changed.

Luka: Now that they aren’t on opposite sides of a war, hopefully Jaime can be more forthright about his feelings. A happy ending for them may not be likely, but I hope they get to be happy together, in some form, before one of them perishes — probably Jaime.

Petra: I’ve got a good sense of where Jaime is going, and but we’ll get to that later, but I’m not sure about a conclusion for Brienne. I love Gwendoline Christie’s idea that she founds a finishing school for “unconventional young ladies” but that’s unlikely to become canon. I can’t really think of a satisfying or else poetically tragic ending for her.

Luka: After all these years, Arya will reunite with Jon, Gendry and Sandor!

Petra: I’m excited to see how Arya reacts to them — or to human society in general. Arya’s ability to accept affection (or lack thereof) is something I expect the show will delve into as her arc comes to a close. Part of me wants a reprise of Arya jumping into Jon’s arms, as she did when they last saw each other, but that’s not going to happen.

Luka: I think it might! I believe the reunion will be exactly what you wish could happen. When Arya heard from Hot Pie that Jon was back in Winterfell as King in the North, we saw Arya’s Faceless facade melt, we saw little Arya return for a few minutes there. We’ll get that again times a thousand when she actually gets to see Jon. Later, it’ll probably get a bit awkward as Jon realizes Arya isn’t the little girl he remembered anymore.

Petra: I like the idea of Sansa and Arya staying together, ruling side by side to the very end. But I’m thinking we’ll get something more along the lines of what was implied with Nymeria. She loves the people that she loves but her place isn’t with them anymore. In the books she might die, but in the show I think it’s more likely that she leaves to see what’s “West of Westeros,” as she told Lady Crane she wanted to in season six.

Luka: Something like that would be a nice, melancholic ending for a character like Arya. Sadly, as a fandom, we tend to discuss the possibility of characters dying or surviving as happy and tragic endings respectively, but there’s more nuance to it than that. Death isn’t the only sad outcome, not by a long shot. Arya being unable to adjust to civilized society and leaving her family once they’re safe would be a good example of that.

Petra: She’s been through a lot of trauma and killed a lot of people cold-heartedly. I don’t know how an ending in which she gets to live happily with her family can be earned.

Luka: To be fair, there’s a middle ground between leaving the known world forever and staying in Winterfell, perfectly adapted to the domesticity of what’s expected of a Lady. She may just turn out to be the strange but beloved relative in the family, you know? The “cool aunt” type who’s still around, who’s still home when it matters but, more often than not, is out hunting or exploring with her direwolf and pack of wolves. That’d also be a fitting end for Arya, in my view. By the way, do you think Nymeria will return?

Petra: It depends on Arya’s fate. I don’t know. I like the bittersweetness of never seeing Nymeria again, but only if it ties in with Arya realizing she can’t stay with her family.

Luka: You’re picturing Nymeria’s return strictly as an endgame scenario, I see. That’s curious. Maybe this is a bit cliché, and one

too many, but I’d love it if, just as Arya is about to be killed by a White Walker, Nymeria suddenly jumps in to save her, kind of like the eagles in

, or the creatures from the Forbidden Forest coming to the defense of Hogwarts in

Petra: The wolves should play a more proactive role. Including Ghost, hopefully.

Petra: I’ve got to think he’ll at least have a cameo, just so we are reminded he exists. If there’s a battle in Winterfell, I’d love it if we had

Luka: Jon has just bent the knee to Daenerys … in more ways than one.

So, how do you think the Stark sisters will react to both of those things? We already saw that Sansa wasn’t particularly pleased to hear that Jon had pledged allegiance to Daenerys Targaryen, though of course it had a lot to do with not being consulted first.

Petra: They’re not gonna like it, at least at first. For some reason, when I imagine characters meeting for the first time, I always picture them eating breakfast together. It makes no sense, but I always picture them in a kitchen, at a circular table, eating cereal. So I have this mental image of Daenerys, Sansa, and Arya in that awkward setting, and Sansa or Arya being like “So, you’re my my brother’s new girlfriend?” I don’t think Sansa and Arya are going to be happy that Jon bent the knee to a foreign invader.

Luka: I think Arya will focus on trying to determine whether this Dragon Queen can be trusted with Jon. You know, the archetypal role that is sadly expected of older brothers regarding their sister’s boyfriends: “What are your intentions with my brother?”

Petra: That would be amazing! I would absolutely love that.

Luka: That said, I hope and expect Arya’s and Sansa’s suspicions are eventually defused. Daenerys will prove her worth to both of them in some way or another, I’m sure.

Petra: When do you think Jon and Daenerys will find out they’re related?

Luka: If the first big meeting between the Starks and Jon and Dany is in White Harbor, there’s good narrative justification for leaving Bran behind — he’s not comfortable traveling, and “there must always be a Stark in Winterfell.” So the revelation to Jon could be delayed for a short while, even though that’s not my first instinct.

Petra: I’d love it if they found out while they’re spooning in bed, all sweaty. “Hey, I’ve got a message from Bran. Should I read it aloud?” There’s this 80’s fantasy novel,

, a retelling of the Arthurian legend from the women’s perspective, in which Morgaine and Arthur find out that they’re half-siblings immediately after they have sex, and it’s just this … chaos. I so want that to be how Jon and Dany find out.

Luka: I hope Sam is the one to break it to Jon. Bran’s not very sensitive right now!

Can you imagine Bran telling them, given how straightforward he is?

From “The Great Tourney at Harrenhal”, an animated short narrated by Ellie Kendrick in character as Meera Reed, as part of the “Histories & Lore” feature in the Season 6 Blu-ray

Luka: As of now, we’ve only discussed things that I hope most people agree are reasonable and, to an extent, predictable. Now I’m going to switch gears and mention something I

to happen … even though I don’t particularly expect it too. But here it is: I want Bran to have a vision of Rhaegar and Lyanna meeting for the first time. I want this to happen in the context of Rhaegar being sent by his paranoid, mad father to arrest the Knight of the Laughing Tree, a mystery knight who fought in the Tourney at Harrenhal in defense of Howland Reed. We are told Rhaegar only found the vanishing knight’s shield by a tree but, if the very clever

theorists are correct, that knight was in fact Lyanna, and he caught her. This would’ve probably been the first time they met properly, in private, and certainly the first time Rhaegar took notice of Lyanna; at the end of the Tourney, he chose her as the “queen of love and beauty” and gave her a crown of blue winter roses, as Littlefinger recounted to Sansa in season five’s “Sons of the Harpy.” A flashback to that meet-cute would be a great way to give us a sense of what Rhaegar and Lyanna’s relationship was like, beyond the fact that it produced Jon.

Luka: I’m aware that showing the Tourney at Harrenhal itself may be too expensive for a mere flashback that isn’t truly

. It’s been set up in the books so we’ll probably get a confirmation in either

, but this mystery hasn’t even been established in the show. There’s no real need to introduce it now, other than to contextualize Lyanna and Rhaegar’s relationship. But I still want it to happen!

Petra: It’s odd to hinge such a major plot point on a relationship we know nothing about. For the poor casual viewers, who haven’t read the books and aren’t part of the fandom hive mind, there was no buildup or explanation for Lyanna and Rhaegar’s romance. I do consider it necessary to show some context about this scandalous love affair.

Luka: I believe we are bound to see Rhaegar and Lyanna again in season eight, as their relationship flourishes. There’s very little doubt about that in my mind. But I’m just not sure whether it will be in the context of the Tourney at Harrenhal or not.

Petra: What other conversation could they have that would be half as interesting? It’s not just the romance. We’d learn a lot about Lyanna if she’s revealed to be this cool mystery knight, and we’d learn a lot about Rhaegar if he decides not to unmask her.

Luka: True! And if they don’t show the tourney proper, it could be an inexpensive scene that contains a lot of character development and context for Jon’s parentage.

Luka: Speaking of Jon, how do you think he’ll react to the news? If Daenerys isn’t present when Bran or Sam reveal the truth, do you think Jon will tell Dany immediately?

Petra: They’re in a romantic relationship. I can’t imagine him delaying for very long.

Luka: And Jon is Jon. He’s too honest not to tell the truth, no matter the consequences.

Petra: True. I’m interested to see what strikes him the most: the fact that he is related to Daenerys, or the fact that he’s the heir to the Iron Throne. What do you think?

Petra: Oh, of course! It will be the fact that his dad was his uncle and his aunt was his mom, right? I keep forgetting how much more I know than Jon.

Luka: I’m sure Ygritte would agree.

Everyone else who learns about this, including Daenerys, will likely focus on Jon’s paternity and what it means politically, but I’d bet that what will strike Jon like lightning will be the identity of his mother, which he always wanted to know; the realization that Ned wasn’t his actual father; and, of course, the bombshell that Ned, Jon’s mentor in honesty, lied to everyone to save his life.

Petra: I picture everyone who knows arguing about the political implications, but when they turn to Jon, he’s not there. He’s down in the crypts, looking at Lyanna’s statue!

Luka: He must have passed her statue dozens of times. Now he’ll see it with new eyes. He’ll finally have a tangible connection to his mother. I could see him turning to Ned’s statue, too, and asking, like Luke in

: “Why didn’t you tell me?” I’m sure Ned’s lie to the realm and Jon’s Targaryen nature will haunt him for a while before he can reconcile himself to the truth. I don’t think his conversation with Theon in “The Dragon and the Wolf” was just for Theon’s sake. Jon’s words that Theon can be both a Stark and a Greyjoy will be thrown back at him: “You’re a Stark — and a Targaryen.”

Luka: Of course, Jon’s identity crisis may go deeper than that: Ned, whom Jon admired for his honesty and tried to emulate, lied to everyone, including Jon, and that’s likely to shock him to his core, much deeper than his parentage. Here is where Meera could come in, if she returns with her father Howland, the only person currently alive who remembers the events at the Tower of Joy. Maybe Howland will help Jon make sense of Ned’s decision to raise him as a bastard and lie to absolutely everyone about it, particularly since Howland was probably present when Ned made that decision.

Petra: Honestly, I just want to meet Howland Reed. As a book reader, the allure surrounding the guy is reason enough to bring him into the plot. And it could give Meera the opportunity for a more cathartic ending than she got in season seven!

Luka: Let’s talk about this, because they laid it pretty thick: Dany’s so getting pregnant.

Petra: It certainly seems that way. Do you have any thoughts about where this is going?

Luka: Narratively, I see the pregnancy serving two purposes, one that is thematic and I’ll get to when we discuss the ending, and one that’s more plot-relevant: Daenerys getting pregnant will likely expedite their marriage, which has been an unspoken possibility since Jon bent the knee. Though the news that they’re related will surely create some drama, I believe they will still get married, for a number of reasons. For starters, it would legitimize their baby, as Jon would never let his own child grow up a bastard. It might also soothe Northern discontent if Jon marries the foreign Dragon Queen he bent the knee to and goes from being King of the North to King Consort of the Seven Kingdoms, rather than demoting him to Warden of the North. Hell, Jon and Dany could even sort it out in such a way that he may keep his original title too, I’m sure. Of course, this is only important in the long run if both of them survive, which seems unlikely.

Petra: Dany’s fate is a bit of an open question for me. It’s interesting they’re building more and more parallels between Cersei and Daenerys: they’ve both lost children; they’re both pregnant by a blood relative; they both have predilections for fire; and they’ve both been denounced as the Mad King’s true successor, by characters and fans alike. So, my predictions for Dany’s and Cersei’s stories are starting to overlap a little bit.

Luka: Do you believe these parallels are there to make the point that “they are not so different after all”? Personally, I see it as a subversion to contrast the characters.

Petra: I don’t know, because this Mad Queen thing with Daenerys needs to pay off in some way. They set it up, then defused it, then set it up again, and then defused it again. Much as I hate the idea of Daenerys becoming a villain, this has to be building to something but, short of tinfoil theories, I can’t think of what, exactly.

Luka: Come on, go crazy! Wear that tin foil hat!

I can imagine Daenerys becoming completely unhinged if she loses all three of her dragons and, in lieu of dragonfire, resorting to wildfire instead. That’d be the ultimate parallel between both her father and Cersei. It’d be interesting if the burnt down King’s Landing throne room from her vision in the House of the Undying was caused by her, instead of Cersei, as the usual theory goes.

Luka: Daenerys could ignite Cersei’s wildfire and destroy the Red Keep, but I can only see it happening unintentionally. Her first instinct has always been to attack King’s Landing with her dragons instead of taking the more indirect approaches that Tyrion suggests, so I can imagine Dany finally succumbing to her worst impulses — which aren’t madness or bloodthirstiness, despite what many might say, but a rigid sense of justice executed with fire and blood. Her intent would be to get rid of Cersei once and for all, but instead the Red Keep and perhaps most or all of the capital blows up by mistake.

Petra: That would be more in keeping with Daenerys as a character. The full-fledged Mad Queen mantle has never made sense for Daenerys, despite the foreshadowing.

Petra: I wonder if Dany will be the one to kill the Night King.

Luka: Hmpf… the confrontation between Jon and the Night King has been set up so explicitly, at Hardhome and the Frozen Lake, that I can’t see it not taking place.

Petra: When I try to picture the actual showdown at the end of the series, it feels very conventional to me at this point: Jon kills the Night King in single combat and every White Walker and Wight falls dead, like the Chitauri in

. The one thing they could do to change things up would be to have Daenerys kill the Night King instead and perhaps die in the process. It would be poetic if our Fire Queen died from being stabbed through the heart with an ice sword.

Luka: If there really needs to be a twist in the end, and I’m not completely sure there does, it could have more to do with the structure of the story than what actually happens. This might be too strange or anti-climactic for some people, but what if Jon and Daenerys defeat the Night King in episode four or five, and only

are they forced to face Cersei? What if the showdown with Cersei is the real climax of the story?

Luka: I get why my suggestion has issues. Unpredictability is fine, but it can go too far. After all, the Scouring of the Shire was cut from Peter Jackson’s

for very good reasons. In the books, the sequence made a crucial point but cutting it made structural sense for the film, as the story really was over by then. Even so, I can see Cersei surviving until the end, which I would have never predicted a few years ago.

Petra: What do you think Cersei would do? What’s the climax you have in mind?

Luka: First of all, we’d have a climax focused entirely on human characters in the aftermath of defeating the apocalyptic supernatural threat. As for what Cersei would do, my theories aren’t revolutionary: her madness will have reach such a self-destructive zenith by that point that all of King’s Landing will be in danger, and Jaime will have to kill his sister as he killed the Mad King, perhaps dying in the process. At some point, Sandor will face off against Gregor, who he may defeat using fire, thus overcoming both his fear of fire and the one who instilled that fear in him at the same time. And Daenerys could die around this point too, if she isn’t already dead by the Night King’s hand.

Petra: That’d be great. Despite our conversation last week about the underrated dramatic value of the White Walkers, it would be very

if the great threat is defeated yet the characters still have to deal with their own human shit.

season has rarely included the climax — it’s usually in the second to last episode with the finale serving more as a resolution. In this final six-part season that we’ve got, we could have our battle for the fate of humanity in episode five. Then, for the first half of the series finale, Cersei’s story could come to a close, with at least another thirty or forty minutes left for a proper denouement.

Petra: I think most people agree about Cersei’s ending: Jaime will kill her. I’ve been trying to think about how the “younger, more beautiful queen” will factor into it. I’d love it if her prophesied bane turns out to be “Brienne the Beauty,” if she’s the one who kills Cersei, perhaps in order to defend Jaime … though that’d compromise the Valonqar prophecy from the books. But Daenerys is the obvious candidate, of course.

Luka: In terms of predicting the end for these characters, Cersei has always been the easiest for us nerds, and I mean that in a good way: Cersei’s story is heading somewhere very particular, and if it’s well executed it’ll be somewhere very dramatically satisfying. It’s a beautifully tragic ending for her, isn’t it? Maybe they’ll surprise us, but if they do, I hope Martin or D&D came up with something just as fitting and emotionally resonant.

Petra: Aside from her ending, how do you think the rest of her story will go?

Luka: Euron will return soon with the Golden Company, because these mercenaries wouldn’t have set them up so explicitly if we weren’t going to see them on the field. There are believable ways for Theon to learn that Euron isn’t heading to the Iron Islands, but I can’t see that confrontation taking place before Cersei gets her shiny new army. Anyway, tragedy aside, I expect it’ll be a very fun season for Cersei. Assuming she loses the baby, she’ll be completely unhinged, vindictive and self-destructive. Moreover, with Jaime gone, she has no calming influences left. The few people still at Cersei’s side will only fuel her fire of madness: her Hand is essentially Doctor Mengele; her protector is a remorseless killing machine who

a remorseless killing machine before becoming an obedient zombie; and, of course, her suitor and foremost military commander is a psychopathic pirate who happens to be just as mad as her, except in different ways. This Red Keep of Horrors will be a darkly fun watch, while it lasts!

Petra: If we’ve got a few episodes with Euron and Cersei together, and she gives him what he wants, that’s going to be a lot of fun to watch. Just imagine an actual sex scene between those two! I just enjoy watching those maniacs on-screen together.

Luka: I hope they develop a completely twisted, depraved relationship.

Luka: Speaking of Euron, how do you think things will go with Theon?

Petra: I’m not completely sure about Theon. His and Yara’s storyline is so divorced from the main plot at this point that I wonder if both of them are going to die. I can’t really see them integrating back into the main plot once Theon saves Yara. If Theon dies and Yara survives, for example, I don’t know what narrative purpose she would serve.

Luka: I believe Yara will be one of the endgame characters who represents the next generation of rulers, the ones who are eager to change things up for their people. Remember, Yara was quite critical of Balon’s pointless Northern conquest, and she agreed to Dany’s terms to refocus the ironborn way of life in a productive direction. Yara could do much good in the world to come, after this near-apocalyptic cataclysm.

Petra: I can see that. I’d like it! I have some ideas about how the rescue mission could go. I’d love it if, when Theon finds Yara, she’s delirious or semi-conscious, uncertain who this guy trying to her rescue is, much like Theon was in season four. So, to assure her that he’s her brother, Theon leans in and says, “Don’t die so far from the sea.”

Luka: That’d be beautiful! Though, to be honest, it could be a bit problematic, because, I don’t know about you, but I’m imagining all of this taking place in a ship, at sea.

I don’t know how they’d make the line make sense, but it’d be nice. Since they’re really emphasizing the parallels between Theon and Yara’s captivity, I’d appreciate it if, assuming they both survive, Yara’s torture has long-term consequences and she has to lean on Theon as much as he leans on her, that they have to help each other. Maybe Euron cuts out her tongue so Theon has to speak for her. I’d find it really moving if these two siblings who couldn’t stand each other in season two conclude the series broken but empathetic, dependent on each other to get by.

Luka: I really like that. I honestly hadn’t even considered the possibility that both would live, but I find your idea to be such a fitting end for them that you may have changed my mind completely. Whether Theon dies in the attempt or not, I do expect him to save Yara and kill Euron. Perhaps the kraken siblings could kill their mad uncle together.

Petra: We know that Melisandre and Varys will die, because Melisandre told us so, but I cannot think of how that will happen for either of them. The only scenario I can cook up for Varys is that he confronts Daenerys, just as she told him to if he ever thinks she’s failing her people in “Stormborn,” but Mad Dany perceives it as betrayal, so she executes him via dragon fire. Now, this far-fetched scenario would depend on Daenerys going “bad” which, as I shall say for the umpteenth time,

Luka: I don’t think that’s how it’ll go down but, then again, nothing else has been set up. As for Melisandre, she prophesied she’d re-encounter Arya, who is very ‘murdery’; or the Red Woman could simply die of old age, as she’s supernaturally old and, once she believes she has done her duty to her god, she (or R’hllor) may decide it’s time to rest. Regarding the rest of her story, she went to Volantis and teased her return, and I cannot imagine it won’t be a glorious one, with not only other Red Priests but an army of faithful former slaves to back Daenerys and Jon as the Princess and Prince That Were Promised. In the books, the Red Temple of Volantis has a thousand fire-themed elite slave guards. The Fiery Hand would be quite a sight, even if they’re toned down. It’s funny that all our characters had left Essos behind as of season seven, but now Essos is coming to Westeros, with the Golden Company and whoever Melisandre brings back.

Luka: We’ve talked about the major players and their fates, as well as the general course of the plot. So let’s move on to discussing the actual ending! The climax and resolution.

Petra: Daenerys wanting to be the Queen of Westeros for so long only to become Queen of Westeros by the end may seem appropriate, but it could be trite too. That’s why I predicted her death. Jon never wanted to be the king, neither in the North nor of the Seven Kingdoms, so there would be a novelty to it, along with some nice dramatic irony.

Luka: Jon has been all too eager to sacrifice himself for the cause, as we’ve discussed. The signs are clear. Jon and Dany dying as they save the realm together would be fitting. However, you’ve convinced me that a subversion of that could work great: I could see Jon ending up as a reluctant king — perhaps not the kind of feudal king we’ve seen before, but a king nonetheless. Daenerys will probably still die saving the realm in some way or another, though. There is always the possibility that both of them survive and rule together, but it would have to be handled with much care. Endings can still be bittersweet without the characters dying. Both Jon and Dany could live so long as it’s not framed as an ending in which everything is solved by the sole virtue of their rule. That would be too much like

the mere fact of them making it through. That wouldn’t doesn’t necessarily make it like Tolkien’s “The correct bloodline has been restored to the monarchy and now there is peace in the realm.”

Petra: Yeah, I’d like the show to avoid a

scenario. What about their child together, though? Do you think he or she has any future?

Luka: I could see the baby becoming a symbol for the next generation — the generation that, after this hard-won War for the Dawn, will get to actually live the “dream of spring.”

Petra: To be honest, I hadn’t even considered the baby coming to term. I like what you said about it becoming a symbol for a brighter future. That could be a cathartic ending. Still, a Targaryen heir — whether it’s Jon, Dany or their baby — surviving this story throws a wrench into our idea that we’ll see the development of a proto-democratic system inspired by the Night’s Watch and the ironborn in which the leader is elected, as Tyrion suggested in “Beyond the Wall.” I believe that will develop due to a lack of alternatives, not because of the goodness of the characters’ hearts.

Luka: I mean, I know you’re from the United States, which is a republic, but that’s not the only form of democracy. There are democracies with kings! I live in one!

My point is, regardless of whether the Iron Throne survives or not, and it probably won’t, I see Westeros maintaining its monarchy, whether it’s elective or it remains hereditary, with the Hand as the one who’s elected instead. Or, if even that position remains appointed, an alternative step towards the people’s representation could be to have a new kind of Small Council that isn’t so small anymore and is elected in some direct or indirect way — essentially, a proto-democratic parliament.

Luka: As for why I believe Westeros will continue being a monarchy in some form, regardless of the great political changes I expect, I just think it’s more realistic. If in this new system there isn’t a king at the center, at least nominally, every ambitious lordling with a single drop of Targaryen or Baratheon blood will fight for his flimsy claim to the throne, and the people

follow, because monarchy is the only system they know.

Petra: Oh, that’s true. There has to be a monarch, at least at first, to ensure stability. Still, why would the new monarch and their council revolutionize the rest of the system if they don’t have to? I know Dany wants to break the wheel, but what is the incentive for a completely new form of government that is untested on such a huge scale?

Luka: I get that. Despite the shitty “Great man theory” of history, which purports that it’s influential individuals who shape history, that’s not really how the world works. It’s an attractive idea, because it makes for satisfying stories, but these great societal developments usually happen because the environment — nature, technology, previous societal shifts — finally allow for it, and there’s someone there to take advantage of it. But I would argue there is plenty of environmental incentive for political change: the Seven Kingdoms will have just gone through a continental war and a near-apocalyptic conflict; half the Great Noble Houses are extinct, so if there is a time to meddle with the estates of the realm, it’s now; two new cultures have been introduced into the kingdoms, both of which have rather fluid notions of leadership compared to Westeros; the religious center of the country has been wiped off the map just as a new religion is making strides, in particular when Melisandre returns with what I’m sure will be an army of believers; and, of course, at the center of it all you have a monarch who wants to break the chain of injustice. Even if Dany isn’t sure about how she’ll go about it, and even if she dies, which seems likely, there are very clever people around her who will be willing and able to follow through with her dream in these very special circumstances.

Luka: Who do you think these clever people will be? When you picture one of the last shots as humanity prepares to move forward, who do you imagine sitting at the table?

Petra: Inexplicably, Missandei and Grey Worm are still there, in my mind. Yara and Theon, whichever one survives, if either of them do. I’m confident about Tyrion, too.

Luka: And Sam, of course, for reasons not too dissimilar to Tyrion. I would also add Sansa, for sure, even if she physically plans to stay up North ruling it.

Petra: Those last three —Tyrion, Sam and Sansa —are the only ones I’m 100% positive will survive. I like the idea of the cripples, bastards, and broken things being all there.

Luka: Exactly! The next generation of rulers will be the unlikeliest of people; in a way, those who didn’t “play the game of thrones,” or at least not in the same way the likes of Cersei or Littlefinger would (and did) describe it. It will be the Unlikely Small Council!

Luka: Just as the cripples, bastards, and broken things who survived the winds of winter prepare to become the generation of rulers who will break the wheel, they look back on all that was lost and look forward to the dream of spring.

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I’ve been waiting for such a thread. I’ve been meaning to write up my own story prediction (hopeful outline) for the final season… Unfortunately I haven’t yet. 😛

We didn’t mention Sansa’s reunion with Sandor and Tyrion, but I’m intrigued by how that will go, especially with her ex-husband. I’d like Tyrion to be pleased about how Sansa turned out, as she was when Jon mentioned Sansa is starting to show how clever she is; as for Sansa’s reaction to Tyrion, I’m not sure. She did like him, so she’ll be happy enough he’s alive and in a better place mentally (i.e. less drunk), but beyond that, no idea.

A minor quibble, but The Night King does not look scary. He looks like Jimmy Durante. I really hope they go back to the season 5 style more than the seasons 6-7 style.

I don’t envy the writers in trying to structure the arrival of Jon and Dany at Winterfell that will presumably happen in the premiere, because there are so many character interactions and exchanges of information and reactions to deal with in a short span.

As far as the overall structure of the season, there are, to my mind, two ways it could play out: the first would be that Jaime’s bringing word of Cersei’s intended treachery leads to some of the main cast going to deal with her immediately, and this plot runs parallel with the WW plot; the second is, as discussed in this article, the “Scouring of the Shire” option. There are pros and cons to each; the former, for instance, gives Cersei more to do through the season, whereas in the latter her main role would only be at the end.

As far as the relation between the impending birth of Miracle Baby and the “breaking the wheel” stuff, the scene where Tyrion raises the succession issue is brought up, in my view, to remind people of Dany’s current heirlessness, a situation that will soon be remedied. There’s not going to be any birth of democracy or parliament; there’s no setup for that in either medium, particularly in the books, since “breaking the wheel” is a show-only thing. Dany will instead usher in a purer autocracy with a much stronger central government and weaker nobles, which was the common feature of European states progressing out of feudalism.

My theory is that the Night King won’t be killed in a duel as such, rather they will have to find a way to remove the dragonglass lodged in his heart. What I am interested in is Bran’s role in the war for the dawn. Dany will ride her dragon, Jon will duel with more white walkers or maybe even ride Rhaegal, what is Bran’s contribution? I hope he is the one who finds the way to end the White Walker threat, by finding out how they were defeated in the last Long Night. And maybe also find out why they were not completely successful in defeating them, since they have eventually come back. I also like the theory of him warging into undead Viserion, thereby incapacitating the Night King, but I am not sure how likely this is.

As much as I would love to see it, I really doubt there will be a flashback to the tourney if Harrenhal, or even any flashback of Rhaegar and Lyanna. I feel like their purpose on the show is done.

A minor quibble, but The Night King does not look scary.He looks like Jimmy Durante.I really hope they go back to the season 5 style more than the seasons 6-7 style.

HAHA!!! I very much agree though. There have many comments that Brake’s version was much more menacing than Furdik’s. Personally I see Furdik’s as almost emotionless, like “ho hum, I’m going to do (this) now.” Brake looked angry and confidently evil.

Great discussion once again. I loved your talking about what happens next after the conflict with the White Walkers and Cersei.

Luka, I’m glad you brought up – and disagreed with – the “great men” theory of history, because, as you say, it’s not really the way things work in real life, but it is the way things work in fantasy so frequently (like Aragorn returning to be king and everything is better). Like you say, I think enough big-picture events have happened that the society in general is ready for a somewhat different form of governance. Robert’s Rebellion, the War of Five Kings, and the war between Cersei and Daenerys are all devastating consequences of the system that Aegon set-up, and the line of succession in particular. I can see future Westerosi historians seeing the “breaking of the wheel” as the inevitable consequence of the increased bloodshed caused by these rightful-ruler disputes.

I’m not exactly sure what that new system will look like. Obviously if they start splitting Westeros into multi-member districts elected through proportional representation that would be a bit of a stretch. I honestly don’t see legislative elections coming so soon after a monarchy. I like your idea of a Hand being elected, even if the monarch is still there (like a Prime Minister). However, Tyrion’s suggestions in “Beyond the Wall” (which I think is the setup for what happens at the end of the series) was specifically how to choose a successor to Daenerys, i.e. getting rid of the hereditary line of succession. So I actually think a more democratic selection of the “monarch” is fairly likely.

Your discussion and the thoughts it brought up made me look at Tyrion’s final moment of Season 7 a bit differently. I was a bit confused (though not in a bad way) as to why he would find the pairing of Jon and Dany so concerning, even if he would rather this pairing was a more conscious political choice. I think now, looking back, that Tyrion was kind of counting on there not being a son or daughter to succeed Daenerys, and that she would rule as a kind of Elizabeth I – unmarried and beholden to no ancient, noble house. For him, a new, democratic way of choosing a leader would have made the war he’s fighting in (against his own people) worth the devastating loss of life it has caused. If Dany gets married and plans to have children, or gets pregnant, he worries that she will refuse to accept his proposed plans in favor of ensuring her son or daughter takes the throne after her. In fact, if Dany gets pregnant, I think that does put his plans for a more democratic system in serious jeopardy. Maybe that’s why he’s concerned.

This is already long, but my prediction, considering all of this, is that Daenerys will successfully conquer Westeros (I don’t see her going mad, per se, but I do think it is possible that she will do something very violent and problematic to finally win). However, I think her and her unborn child will both die during the season, and Jon will be in a position to take the throne that is his by right (according to the rules of succession). But he, I think, is far more likely to incorporate Tyrion’s plans for electing the ruler than Dany would be, and will ultimately reject the throne, maybe even melt it down (one Aegon Targaryen creates the Iron Throne and “the wheel” that goes with it; another Aegon Targaryen breaks down both). Then I think a “House of Lords” will elect their next ruler, kinda like the Lord Commander in the Night’s Watch, and Sansa ends up being elected. That way, a “queen younger and more beautiful” than Cersei replaces her, as the prophecy suggests, without completely undercutting all of this buildup to Jon being the rightful heir to the throne. His inheritance is important to the story, but not because he will be the savior ruling at the end like Aragorn, but only so that he can reject it and help form a new world. (I’m probably wrong though).

Re: Sansa’s reaction to Tyrion. She seemed to still think positively of him in “Stormborn,” but the big elephant in the room from my perspective is that Tyrion killed Shae, one of the only friends Sansa had in King’s Landing. I don’t know how Sansa would find out about that, other than Tyrion confessing it (and I’m not sure why he would), but I would appreciate him being called out on that, by far the worst thing he has done in the show, and Sansa is one of the few who could/would.

I personally hope we don’t get a one on one fight between Jon and the Night King. I understand it has been set up, but it feels unrealistic at this point that Jon could beat the Night King if he is strong enough to throw an ice javlin and kill a dragon. If the Night King was truly the weapon the Children developed to fight humanity, really makes no sense for a single man to be able to defeat him. I would prefer something where it literally took all the fire power humanity had to defeat the guy. Something like Bran taking back control of Viserion and having three dragons rain hell fire on him plus some Lord of Light magic by Mel.

I would like some ending also where Dany on the throne recognizes that there is no breaking the wheel. The best she can do is make some reforms but that human nature will continue to be what it is and for good government to continue it will depend on future generations.

Agree with you sean C. A more centralized less feudal state makes more sense than democracy from a historical perspective. Democracy feels too much like a fairy tell everything was perfect ending.

House Lannister has to go down in History, Tywin´s legacy a Lie. That is the point of Castamere, that the Lannisters will die like the Reynes that defiled their rule. Lannisters defiled and betrayed the Targs and they will die.

Jaime and Brienne will die fighting the WW- they have Valyrian Steel Swords after all, so it stands to reason Jon Snow will use those warriors to kill the White Walkers, while the rest will use Dragonglass.

Their swords will return to House Stark.

I bet you also the War for the Dawn ends by epidsode 4- Daenerys and Drogon kill Viserion- NK has to go down and face Jon Snow, who slays him end of episode 4 .

Bittersweet: mankind was saved, but not as united front. They still have to go South so that not all that they had fight for is lost in the hands of Cersei and Euron.

Qyburn has had access to wights; An Army is marching NORTH.

Arya wears Jaimes mask and goes to kill Cersei and end the war; she was pissed she had the chance of asking for Tywin Lannsiter and end the war and she did not. She will not do it a second time.

There she will see that Cersei has become a shadow of herself; Euron sits on the Iron Throne. It is a mercy kill in the end, and Cersei gets actually happy Jaime is doing it, except is not Jaime…

The vision of the lone dragon flying over Kings Landing is Daenerys riding Drogon; Drogo would come back for her, as he was in life, the day she bears a living child. Drogo is inside Drogon. No other man will come after Jon Snow for Daenerys; she will be ” married” to her dragon forever, raising the kid.

Sean C.: There’s not going to be any birth of democracy or parliament; there’s no setup for that in either medium, particularly in the books, since “breaking the wheel” is a show-only thing. Dany will instead usher in a purer autocracy with a much stronger central government and weaker nobles, which was the common feature of European states progressing out of feudalism.

House Monty: Agree with you sean C. A more centralized less feudal state makes more sense than democracy from a historical perspective. Democracy feels too much like a fairy tell everything was perfect ending.

Whenever the issue of a step towards a more representative system of government is brought up, some people always misunderstand it this way. I think we were pretty specific: we aren’t talking about a proper democracy (though we have thousands of years of history with systems that have been called democratic.) Yes, obviously, neither Petra nor I expect elected representatives throughout the land and a separation of powers. I explicitly said the depowerement of the nobility will allow for a central enlightened king who seeks to represent more of the people and not just his feudal lordlings, perhaps via some sort of elected position or body. Elective monarchies exist (which is what Tyrion suggested.) Or maybe the “Prime Minister” could be elected, or the ruling Council. Doesn’t really seem too dissimilar to what Sean C. said, doesn’t it? So what is the issue here? It may be a matter of semantics. “Democracy” can mean many things, though I should add that we didn’t even venture that far — we just called it a proto-democratic system.

Shae deserved every bit of that. Tyrion shouldn’t feel badly in any way, shape, or form. Shae actually reached for a knife to try and kill Tyrion before he did anything to her. Not to mention that she betrayed him in almost every possible way.

Varys will probably travel to King’s Landing similar to what Tyrion did in season 7 in order to either broker a deal with Cersei or arrange a meeting. He will never come back. That’s the vague prediction I have for how/why Varys will die.

Either that, or he’ll die with magic in some way, since he’s all bout hating on that magic, but Im not sure in what specific way this would happen.

100 points awarded for using the word exculpating by the way.

Totally agree with Clob and Mr Derp re: the new NK, above: I generally don’t like dissing the production-side of the show as the hard graft of a lot of talented sfx crew goes into it. But that shot really showcases how awfully fake and unconvincing the new NK makeup looks on screen.

Basically at a loss at this point to understand how the showrunners and/or VFX guys have seemingly developed a blind spot re: the overall drop in quality from his look in season 5. It’s just plain … weird! Something to do with the nose/mouth giving it a very artificial rubber Halloween mask look. Either that or just emphatic proof that two different actors wearing the same prosthetic makeup can give wildly varying results!

They’ll never bring back Brake as the increased physical performance a trained stuntman like Furdik can provide is pretty much where the role is going, heading into the endgame

But if they DON’T make some adjustments? Or maybe just keep Furdik for body/longshots and splice in someone else for the closeups that’ll doubtless become more crucial in S8? Honestly, it’s started to make me think this could be the one recasting to really hurt the show, longterm.

Much as I wanted to see her, it makes me glad they didn’t do Stoneheart. There’s a real uneven quality with the undead/Wights on GOT (e.g: dragonpit = amazing.)

But the most important one of all currently looks as threatening as Squidward from Spongebob Squarepants …

But if you give the nobles the power to elect the king, the result will not be a government that meaningfully reforms Westeros, because the first and most important target of any such reform would be the privileges of the nobles. The landed elite has always been the most reactionary conservative force in the politics of European states until the industrial revolution rendered them essentially irrelevant (see, variously, the House of Lords in the UK; the First Estate in France; the boyars in Russia; the Junkers in Prussia/Germany).

That’s what GRRM himself has depicted, in the reign of Aegon V, who implemented various pro-smallfolk policies only to see them dismantled by his successors to please the angry nobility. Or with Jaehaerys I’s abolition of prima nocta in the face of noble opposition. Making the Crown answerable to the nobles isn’t the sort of reform GRRM is building to.

They changed actors. It’s that simple. People really should move on…

Why would Sansa be elected as the ruler of Westeros? What has she done for the realm that would make the Lords select a 17 year old teenager to rule over the entire continent? Her being accepted in the North is understandable, she is the eldest true born Stark and the Starks have ruled the North for 8000 years. But even this acceptance is not something that she should be complacent about honestly, given the extreme fickle nature that the northern Lords have exhibited so far. She was absolutely right in comparing them to weathervanes. Her getting elected to rule all of Westeros would be an eye roll worthy ending, for me at least. I can see her on the small council, but not as a ruler. Personally, I think she will end up ruling the North as the Stark in Winterfell.

I didn’t mean what i said as a criticism of the proto democracy idea. I could see moves toward having a parliament – something which started in England before 1500 – and a more centralized state. I just think the evolution will be more going from 1300s system of gov to 1500s and not 1300s to 1800s.

Agree. If breaking the wheel means anything it means reducing the power of the nobility.

I think we are actually agreeing. Steps towards democracy i.e. Some proto democracy but not an actual democratic system.

Sean C.: Making the Crown answerable to the nobles isn’t the sort of reform GRRM is building to.

Riiight. I agree! That’s why I said exactly the following in the dialogue:

Half the Great Noble Houses are extinct, so if there is a time to meddle with the estates of the realm, it’s now.

House Monty: Agree. If breaking the wheel means anything it means reducing the power of the nobility.

It got cut in the edit, but I told Petra Daenerys sounds a lot like an enlightened despot, except she does want a little bit more direct involvement of the people. Yes, Sean C., “breaking the wheel” is just from the show … but it IS in the show, and it’s brought up repeatedly; you can’t just ignore it because you don’t like it. You always say there’s no setup, despite all evidence to the contrary. If something like this happens, I wonder if you’ll still maintain that position.

An argument could be made that enlightened absolutism eventually brought about democratic movements, very much unwittingly; I could see something like this happening, except without the cluelessness, with a bit more intent.

The fake plots for season 8 end with Tyrion as a world weary regent caring a for a beautiful young Queen called Lyanna Targaryen.

Tyrion is discussing her father and mother and how they loved one another and how they gave their lives in the great war.

The thought if a scene of the dwarf holding the little girl’s hand as they walk out of the throne room together would be the most fittingly bittersweet ending.

So at least on this, I hope the fake plots aren’t too off the mark.

The parallels between Dany and Cesei are very obvious – both are pregnant, but where as one will not have a child and will die in madness and rage at the world, the other will bare a child and die protecting it and the world it will live in.

I like the idea of Dany as enlightened despot. Feels very historically grounded and also true to her character. She saved the world and nudged Westeros in a positive direction but everything is not perfect.

I have just posted a really long prediction post in the White Walkers thread.

About the specific stuff mentioned in this post: Beric and Tormund: Beric will die, he’ll be the first casualty next season. Tormund will live. (The Karstark/Umber kiddos won’t show up again.)

Jaime: He’s already gotten ‘amnesty’ due to the ceasefire, didn’t he? I dunno, I’m not really interested in seeing a court over him. Some conversations with Bran would be nice, though.

As far as I’m concerned, his main purpose now is to provide Brienne with a child and then killing Cersei.

Arya: She’ll live, as a ‘cool aunt’ and in a casual relationship with Gendry.

The direwolves: We won’t see Nymeria again. Ghost is what will remain after Jon once he’s heroically dead.

The Starks (and Sam) meeting Dany: I can see that being played a bit soap opera-ish. Dany and Jon arrive in Winterfell, no one likes Dany much! Then, it turns out that they are OK with her being the Queen, things are just weird because they know she and Jon are related and yet having sex together.

Rhaegar and Lyanna: I want the show to make clear that Rhaegar was a religious fanatic, and Jon was specifically conceived to fulfil a prophecy.

Dany getting pregnant: Boooring. A strong realm filled with the right people in power should be her and Jon’s child. Haven’t we learned enough that even if the parent is a good ruler, the child doesn’t have to be? You can’t trust genetic inheritance with the fate of an entire country!

Dany’s fate: My personal preference is for her to, once she makes sure the fate of the realm is in good hands, take Drogon and ride off into the sunset, spawning a myth of a Once and Future Queen. In reality, going to the ruins of Valyria to serve a Yoda-in-Dagobah role in the sequel.

Jon’s fate: I’d love this to be a ‘there must always be a Lich King’ type of stuff. Basically, he becomes the next Night King, with Bran returning to the trees to watch over him and await the next incarnation (of himself and Jon).

Cersei’s fate: She should die at around the same time as Jon and Dany do their heroic thing. Jaime could leave Dany’s camp to return to King’s Landing to kill her at some point. Preferably taking the Hound with himself for the Bowl.

Theon and Yara: I’d like both of them to live. No predictions, though.

Preferred denouement: The latter half of the last episode is some sort of a Continental Congress. The result is a parliament, a federal army (no more wars between great lords!), and some sort of a founding document. Dany lives but leaves Westeros, Jon is already either dead or the new Night King. I still don’t care about their genes.

Right! I still believe she will die, but also that her successors will follow on her footsteps — that is, that they will break the wheel, by leaving feudalism behind, actually spending resources in taking care of the smallfolk, and giving them a voice in government, as she did in Meereen with the former slaves.

Yaga: The result is a parliament, a federal army (no more wars between great lords!), and some sort of a founding document.

I like the sound of that. I guess Joffrey was right after all, about the one army 😛

I am holding out hope she dies in old age. A bias toward what I want to happen – more of an Augustus end than a Moses end for her – and George’s original outline still give me hope.

Creating change in the structure of Westerosi government isn’t really going to be the hard part when all is said and done.

ENFORCING the change and new laws will be the hard part.

This is the main reason i could see the dragons surviving. There is no changing the structure of the government if the crown is not overwhelmingly powerful vis a vis the nobility. Right now the only place i see that power coming from is dragons.

Remember that D & D said it would be a bittersweet ending. If Jon and Dany survive, it won’t be that bitter and if they’re both dead with Cersei on the throne, there’s nothing sweet.

I think that Jon and Dany will die, possibly following the pattern set within the myth. They both fight fight the Night King and can’t damage him. Accidentally, Jon stabs Dany and then the sword works. Jon does the deed and then decides to take off and not return. Either that, or he is so badly wounded he dies.

Cersei has been killed and I think it is by Arya who gets to see her pretending to be someone else. Sandor has her back on this, quietly, and has the CleganeBowl.

As for Varys dying, well, he is Westeros. Where else would he die? But after setting up a scene like that, he probably will be gone.

I think Sansa will raise the Targaryan baby, which is her cousin and Tyrion will be there and they get together.

Jaime and Brienne actually have sex and then die fighting next to each other.

Sort of a Candide ending. The hero warriors are dead and the rest carry on.

Even though they’re fake plots, I suspect the basic framework of these S8 storylines will be close to what actually happens in the show. I look forward to reading the online meltdowns and rants if any fake plot concepts appear in the final season. 🙂

About Arya’s ultimate fate, I think she’ll kill Cersei as a Faceless Man assignment using Jaime’s face. Afterward, Arya will be killed by the FM as a penalty for using the skills on personal revenge (the Frey massacre).

The last shot of Arya is Jaqen placing Arya’s face in the Hall of Faces to join all the other faces that will be used by other FM. Arya Stark is finally now a girl who has become No One.

Rabelais: Remember that D & D said it would be a bittersweet ending. If Jon and Dany survive, it won’t be that bitter and if they’re both dead with Cersei on the throne, there’s nothing sweet.

Death isn’t the only way to make a story bitter. That’s too black-and-white. Certain ways of surviving can be much sadder than death. That said, I agree it’s unlikely that both Jon and Daenerys survive. But that’s because self-sacrifice is a part of their stories, not because that outcome would be “too sweet.”

You might feel that way, but I doubt Sansa does, and I actually doubt Tyrion does either. It would be an interesting interaction is what I’m saying.

And, I dunno, it’s not like he killed an innocent, but strangling her to death (and continuing to do so after she was disarmed) is at least in the grey area morally. I don’t think it was portrayed as completely self-defense. It started that way but then his anger took over. Plus, he must have known Shae was intimidated into testifying – in fact, he alluded to it in the S7 finale.

I get what you’re saying, but after all Sansa’s lived through and learned, I can’t imagine she would have a hard time understanding why Tyrion did what he did to Shae.

It might also soothe Northern discontent if Jon marries the foreign Dragon Queen he bent the knee to and goes from being King of the North to King Consort of the Seven Kingdoms, rather than demoting him to Warden of the North.

The only way that works is if they never find out about his parentage.

His parentage undermines his right to have ever ruled The North in the first place. He’s a Targaryen. Marrying another Targaryen would surely just exacerbate Northern discontent.

Once he realises he’s a Targaryen he’ll surely do the honourable thing and acknowledge that The North belongs to Sansa.

If he does end up marrying Daenerys then he’ll do so as a Targaryen heir to the Iron Throne, and The North should decide whether or not to bend the knee.

If Jon remains King or Warden of the North after his parentage is revealed then I’ll be pretty disappointed with the show. It doesn’t make sense according to the characterisation of Jon or The North.

So many ideas on what could happen in the final season, I’ll only list a few. I really hope Cersei is dealt with first. With Dany and Jon, I feel like one of the two will die. I still can’t decide which one but if Dany is pregnant then there is a very good chance it could be her. Jaimie will also probably die in Brienne’s arms per his comment a few seasons back. Either the Night King will be killed once and for all or his numbers go down drastically and the wall gets rebuilt with him on the other side (I’m hoping for the prior). After it’s all over Arya will sail west of westeros and Tyrion will have his vineyard and will finally finish telling that one joke. Great read by the way!

They changed actors. It’s that simple. People really should move on…

Thanks for the condescending reply, but others have noted the poor quality of the prosthetics work and him looking faker than before, irrespective of the actor change – a fact I already referenced so didn’t need to be reminded.

Sarcasm and veiled accusations of immaturity in not moving on don’t make for great counter arguments, unfortunately.

Really? I think if anything she will relate to Share in that situation. th ey were both women in vulnerable positions having to make tough choices to survive. And she may also understand Shae’s anger at Tyrion for being discarded like a used object (Not saying that’s what happened, but Shae thought it was).

It kinda depends on how Tyrion tells Sansa (if he even does). If he just says “She grabbed a knife so I killed her before she killed me” Sansa might be sad but not angry with Tyrion. But if he admits that part of killing her was because she testified against him, and because she was fucking his dad, then I don’t think she will be very sympathetic.

No matter what, though, I would imagine her feelings towards Tyrion would get complicated, at least, knowing he killed one of her only true friends. If if she understands why he did it, I think she would have a hard time seeing him the same way as she did. A lot of interesting drama to mine there, so I hope something happens.

We have six episodes left. Six. Six. There is no way we will see more of Rhaegar and Lyanna. And, honestly, who cares. The average (meaning non nerd) viewer knows that he was the crown prince, met Lyanna at a tournament, got smitten by her as she by him, obviously found a way to keep in touch and decided to elope. What is more to know? And I don’t think we will be seeing the Reeds either. But I am not absolute about that.

Jon will not care about the Iron Throne, but will mind the blood relation… until the pregnancy revelation comes along and he lets go.

I do not see Daenerys dying and, honestly, I don’t understand this whole Mad Queen hypothesis. I never saw her as mad. She made some poor choices, but mad? She is not dying because a) she has to give birth b) try killing your female lead and keep the male alive and kicking. The audience will skin you alive.

Plus, Daenerys’ purpose was to get to the Iron Throne. Jon’s was bringing Dawn. He does not need to survive to the end to do that. Still, I love him. You love him. Everybody loves him. He is not dying. This will be a conventional ending.

Jaime will kick the bucket though. He will die in the arms of the woman he loves, but hopefully he will complete his redemption and well, just live a little happiness before. Yes, I totally ship that.

Beric and Tormund won’t die so soon. Beric was brought back six times, dammit. I mean he must have a reason to be there. Do something great before dying. Standing on the Wall watching an ice dragon is not something great. So he will go on until he saves Jon’s life or something.

Tormund is the only wildling we know. He may still die, but not yet.

Bronn will. And Varys. And of course Melisandre. I hope ser Davos stays alive. He doesn’t do much, but we all love him.

I do not care if all the Dothraki disappear from the face of the earth.

Speaking of faces, I would like to see the Faceless Men again. Though there would be absolutely no reason for that.

Now, about strategy: if I were Jon, instead of reinforcing the Umbers and the Karstarks, I would have all houses abandon their castles taking their supplies, send the elderly, the sick and the young children to Bear Island (the wights don’t swim), and gather all my forces for a big deciding battle at Winterfell. Short of like Marathon. Or Thermopylae, but hopefully with a better ending. I can’t see the point in dividing forces in small castles allover.

And if I were the Night King, I would just take my dragon, burn (or freeze) down every living soul south of the Wall and be quick about it. It’s a good thing the Night King will not prove himself a much better strategist than Jon et Co.

I’m typing while at work, so I don’t really have the time to counter any points right now. I just don’t see any potential for drama there. I think we’ll have to agree to disagree and there’s no shame in that 🙂

I predict a scene in the great hall of Winterfell. Dany is seated as a guest, the mood is apprehensive. Ghost who is sitting at Jons side quietly gets up and walks over and lies down beside her and all the lords and ladies of the great houses of the north decide, well she’s ok then.

i dont get this nissa nissa obsession and why so many people think it needs repeating in the show – has nissa nissa ever even been mentioned??

. i doubt that john or anyone is going to forge a sword multiple times, and i very much doubt that anyone will get stabbed through the heart with it to make ‘lightbringer’

if lightbringer is going to be in the show, it will be an existing sword, probably heartsbane. maybe the name is a clue

How come the bittersweet bit begins and ends at Dany & Jon for so many? No doubt they are the biggest characters but they aren’t the only main characters let alone majors. The Stark siblings and Lannister siblings are titanic characters in their own right who will very much define what the ending feels like. You can have both D and J die or live and still have the phase hold true.

Hell…. technically speaking Bran is the biggest character…

NK will be defeated at Winterfell, and Bran will then give it the appropriate name “Winterfell” in one of his time travels.

Jon will either die saving everyone, or BECOME the Night King and lead the dead away.

Dany will survive and rule. They spent too much time bringing all the good guys to her side to have her die or turn mad.

Baby will be Eddard Targaryen, future king.

Sansa will rule the north. Arya will disappear into the great unknown. Cersei will be killed by Jaime.

I am in agreement with you. I find the Nissa Nissa stuff to be kind of silly, like too silly to actually verbalize. Hopefully a character won’t have to die just to create some ultimate sword. It sounds like 12 year old fan fiction to me, but meh, everyone’s different.

It’s like the Sword of 1,000 Truths in World of Warcraft or something.

We didn’t mention Sansa’s reunion with Sandor and Tyrion, but I’m intrigued by how that will go, especially with her ex-husband. I’d like Tyrion to be pleased about how Sansa turned out, as she was when Jon mentioned Sansa is starting to show how clever she is; as for Sansa’s reaction to Tyrion, I’m not sure. She did like him, so she’ll be happy enough he’s alive and in a better place mentally (i.e. less drunk), but beyond that, no idea.

I just happened to rewatch ep4 of season 2, where Sansa, after being beaten and publicly humiliated by Meryn Trant is asked by Tyrion whether she would like to end her engagement to Joffrey; wherupon Sansa replies cooly that she is loyal to her beloved Joffrey and Tyrion says “lady Stark, you might survive us after all”. Well, I expect she will (and what a subtle foreshadowing).

“Garden of Bones” is a rough one to get through. That whole episode is like torture city.

I don’t envy the writers in trying to structure the arrival of Jon and Dany at Winterfell that will presumably happen in the premiere, because there are so many character interactions and exchanges of information and reactions to deal with in a short span.

As far as the overall structure of the season, there are, to my mind, two ways it could play out:the first would be that Jaime’s bringing word of Cersei’s intended treachery leads to some of the main cast going to deal with her immediately, and this plot runs parallel with the WW plot; the second is, as discussed in this article, the “Scouring of the Shire” option.There are pros and cons to each; the former, for instance, gives Cersei more to do through the season, whereas in the latter her main role would only be at the end.

As far as the relation between the impending birth of Miracle Baby and the “breaking the wheel” stuff, the scene where Tyrion raises the succession issue is brought up, in my view, to remind people of Dany’s current heirlessness, a situation that will soon be remedied.There’s not going to be any birth of democracy or parliament; there’s no setup for that in either medium, particularly in the books, since “breaking the wheel” is a show-only thing.Dany will instead usher in a purer autocracy with a much stronger central government and weaker nobles, which was the common feature of European states progressing out of feudalism.

Precisely. You don’t get to go from feudalistic Middle Ages to modern democracy, or even parliamentary monarchy. You have to pass by the absolute monarch first. The “Roi Soleil” period. Or at least the enlightened despot. I can very easily picture Daenerys as Catherine the Great. Although I have trouble seeing Jon as Louis XIV. It must be the tights. Or the wig.

I am thinking White Walker aspect ends in episode 2 or 3 at the latest, with the remaining episodes focusing on the Iron Throne. I mean how many episodes can focus on the White Walkers. Jon is not going to sit around and wait for them, so the battle has to be early.

I enjoyed the conversation and even though I have not read the comments yet, I must add Sir Davos to the list of small council representitives

Shit, of course. I don’t know how I forgot about one of my faves. Davos, yes!

Uh… Jon’s a Stark too, on his mother’s side. Of course, Bran, Sansa, and Arya would be first in the line of succession (in that order,) because they are Starks by Ned, but the Northern Lords already chose Jon, who they thought was a bastard, as King in the North, even though Sansa was there too; and she accepted it, too. As for Bran and Arya, they don’t want to rule; Bran said as much, and I hope we can agree about Arya. So I don’t see the problem here.

Yes well… I have decided to rewatch the whole series up to now – I will only make an exception for Theon’s torture and Oberyn’s death. I will NEVER watch that again!!

Damien: Thanks for the condescending reply, but others have noted the poor quality of the prosthetics work and him looking faker than before

The prosthetics actually look much better than they did back in season five, and certainly season four (where the Night King looked the fakest.) We can argue about the VFX, though; his face is very much edited with CG, it’s not just prosthetics. All the shadings and reflections and translucency that confer that icy quality to his face are 100% post-production. Maybe it just looks worse because we’ve seen more of him. It’s a very difficult effect to master.

Also, the original actor’s slimmer and more skeletal features were better for the prosthetics and the shadows around the Night King’s eyes, which are added in post-production for the new actor. That doesn’t make the prosthetics or any other effect worse; they just work better on the original actor.

Honestly, it’s rather insulting to the makeup, special & visual effects departments to imply they simply don’t care enough to make it look good.

By the way… why “Miracle Baby”? I mean, I don’t know how it goes in the books, but at least in the show it is just as possible that Daario is the one being infertile.

I agree; there is nothing wrong with the actor or the prosthetics, it is just that we got used to it. So it is not scary any more. Come on guys, I hate zombies and I nearly missed the show because I did not want to watch a show about zombies (no Walking Dead for me), but now I laugh at them. We got used, that is all.

I’ve been thinking about this a bit lately – at some point will Jaime offer Widows Wail/ Brienne return Oathkeeper to Jon and Ice will be reforged? Two things – 1) this would be reminiscent of Anduril in LotR and 2) Ice is the ancient sword of House Stark and could have some sort of magical property to fight the WWs – Lightbringer? Just throwing this out there…

for me it’s fine as part of the early mythology, but thats where it will stay anyway i hope!

Widow’s Wail and Oathkeeper already have magical propertries to fight the White Walkers, as they are Valyrian steel; so why is there a need for the the sword to be an ancestral Stark relic? Better to have two swords than one, isn’t it? Especially when the one sword was a greatsword, which are a bit unwieldy.

Future hypothetical politics seems like an incidental topic, so I won’t delve too far into that. I doubt the show will go there at all. However, I must discuss the “Great Man Theory”. Whether or not you subscribe to that theory in real life, it’s rather obvious that GRRM’s fictional world is predicated upon it. The existence of prophecies alone proves it, but even ignoring those, we can see the author’s fascination with the Targaryens and their magic bloodline. Having dragon blood makes you exceptional, both for good or ill.

Moving on, I also want Sam to be the one who tells Jon. At least the man still has feelings, and their friendship is one of the better developed relationships in the story.

And I don’t need to see any more of Rhaegar and Lyanna, thank you very much. We already know what we need to know about them, and wasting precious screentime to develop this tragic romance seems like a poor decision to me. There are many other tragic romances in the present to satisfy this urge, so why bother with the past? We might get something more in the books, and I’d be fine with that.

Finally, I don’t need to see characters dying to be satisfied. The only thing I need to be satisfied is the reunion between Arya and Jon. I don’t know why, but I’m way too invested in this fictional sibling relationship. Maybe it’s because their book versions keep thinking about each other, but I really need them to cry their eyes out when they meet again. Other than that, I’ll be happy to simply get some closure to this story.

Luka Nieto: The prosthetics actually look much better than they did back in season five, and certainly season four (where the Night King looked the fakest.) We can argue about the VFX, though; his face is very much edited with CG, it’s not just prosthetics. All the shadings and reflections and translucency that confer that icy quality to his face are 100% post-production. Maybe it just looks worse because we’ve seen more of him. It’s a very difficult effect to master.

Also, the original actor’s slimmer and more skeletal features were better for the prosthetics and the shadows around the Night King’s eyes, which are added in post-production for the new actor. That doesn’t make the prosthetics or any other effect worse; they just work better on the original actor.

Honestly, it’s rather insulting to the makeup, special & visual effects departments to imply they simply don’t care enough to make it look good.

Luka, with respect ~ you just informed me that prosthetics can produce varying results with different actors as though this wasn’t a point I already raised.

And if you’re going to end with the suggestion that I’m out to disrespect the SFX crew in a comment I

“I generally don’t like dissing the production-side of the show as the hard graft of a lot of talented sfx crew goes into it.”

then there, sir, we shall leave it. :^) I didn’t say they dont care. I’m saying that despite them caring, the end result still looks substantially weaker/faker, IMO, than in S5 and they don’t seem to be aware of it. No SFX crew in their right mind goes out of their way to make a character look less believable than in previous seasons. I’m well aware of that fact, thanks.

Oh, and great article, btw, even if your argumentation on this point doesn’t convince me, tbh! ;^).

I just think they’re doing the best they can with the actor they have. That’s it.

Personally, I prefer the former actor’s face, which was scarier, but the new one’s body and physicality are much more menacing.

“Maybe Euron cuts out her tongue so Theon has to speak for her. I’d find it really moving if these two siblings who couldn’t stand each other in season two conclude the series broken but empathetic, dependent on each other to get by.”

Wow! Reading this immediately brought me back to the s2Ep 8 scene between Yara and Theon. Specifically when Yara recounts to Theon how he was a balling baby that wouldn’t shut up 🙂 It would be fitting if that balling baby ended up being Yara’s voice.

Agreed but what if more is required to down the NK himself? I could see great closure in Jon (Aegon) using Ice, reforged with actual dragon fire, to slay the NK & perhaps sacrificing himself as well.

I think right away we r going to get a battle in the north between the living and dead team Jon/Dany will come to the rescue with Jaime close behind everybody who is everybody, with the exception of Cersei, will be in Winterfell. I think oddly enough with the people in the north and those on the way have their shit together it might not be so bad Kingslanding is fucked I think. Here is why Dany’s vision from s2, mostly everybody is or has left KL to go north, really Sansa foreshadowed that people will make way to Winterfell when the war happens, Jon and Tyrion’s talk about how many people there r in KL, I believe that the Night King got the dragon not just to punch a large hole in the wall but to get his million man army in KL. no way he will that opportunity up. basically the south will be in his hands for a time though.

What a great plot twist it would be if Bran and Sam, after finding out about Jon and Daenerys, decide NOT to tell them anything!!!

Ice can’t be Lightbringer (at least, if you’re referring to the original); it’s only hundreds of years old, and was acquired from Valyria. It does have magical properties to fight White Walkers, but that’s because it’s Valyrian steel, which Oathkeeper and Widow’s Wail already are.

I don’t think they’re going to be returned to the Starks, either. Brienne tried to give Oathkeeper back to Jaime in Season 6 in a scene that makes no sense if the writers are keeping in mind that the swords properly belong to House Stark.

Remember that D & D said it would be a bittersweet ending. If Jon and Dany survive, it won’t be that bitter and if they’re both dead with Cersei on the throne, there’s nothing sweet.

Regarding the use of the term “bittersweet”, I think it’s important to keep in mind what GRRM means when he defines that term. GRRM has praised Tolkien’s ending of LOTR, and described it was bittersweet and the sort of ending he hopes to achieve with ASOIAF:

6. As for the future of Game of Thrones, he has a somewhat clearer idea:

Kind of. Although he’s more sure of GoT’s end, he’s obviously still being a little coy. “I think you need to have some hope,” he said, referencing the manners in which sagas end. “We all yearn for happy endings in a sense. Myself, I’m attracted to the bittersweet ending. People ask me how Game of Thrones is gonna end, and I’m not gonna tell them … but I always say to expect something bittersweet in the end, like [J.R.R. Tolkien]. I think Tolkien did this brilliantly. I didn’t understand that when I was a kid — when I read Return of the King.” Now, however, he notes that Tolkien’s use of allegory to reveal life’s grittier truths (the tragedy of post-war Britain in the late ’40s and early ’50s, in the case of Lord of the Rings), even in the face of a well-earned victory is brilliant. You can’t just fulfill a quest and then pretend life is perfect, he said. Life doesn’t work that way.

LOTR has what a lot people would describe as a happy ending, certainly in comparison to other fantasy stories that have come later. Details like the Scouring of the Shire, Frodo eventually heading west, etc. are what make it bittersweet in GRRM’s words. But the climax of LOTR doesn’t kill any of what we would probably consider the story’s main characters, so that’s not a prerequisite in GRRM’s mind.

They named Ned Stark’s bastard their king. Not Rhaegar Targaryen’s legitimate son.

I don’t know how discontent over their king surrendering their independence to a Targaryen could be soothed by him marrying that Targaryen, once it’s been revealed that he too is a Targaryen.

Anyway, I don’t believe that Jon would accept a title that he had been given ahead of his siblings, partly on false pretences.

This is a great point. This plus the orginal outline lead me to believe at this point that it is more likely than not that the core characters survive – Dany, Jon, Arya, Bran, Tyrion and maybe Sansa.

The Northern Lords will accept Lyanna Stark’s son, whoever the father is, if they also accepted a bastard of Ned, ahead of Sansa. They are not surrendering the North to a Targaryen; he’s a Stark too. Jon would also accept it, as he did the first time; Sansa was there the first time too.

The Northern Lords will accept Lyanna Stark’s son, whoever the father is, if they also accepted a bastard of Ned, ahead of Sansa. They are not surrendering the North to a Targaryen; he’s a Stark too. Jon would also accept it, as he did the first time; Sansa was there the first time too.

Given the set up Sansa has with ruling the North, I can see Jon giving her it when he learns the truth.

Luka Nieto: Riiight. I agree! That’s why I said exactly the following in the dialogue:

Okay, I guess I’m not quite following your meaning there. Are you suggesting that Dany is going to outright abolish the nobles in places where the ruling families are gone and institute something more commoner-oriented in replacement? Or remove the regional governments entirely and run things from King’s Landing?

Yes, Sean C., “breaking the wheel” is just from the show … but it IS in the show, and it’s brought up repeatedly; you can’t just ignore it because you don’t like it. You always say there’s no setup, despite all evidence to the contrary. If something like this happens, I wonder if you’ll still maintain that position.

I don’t ignore; I just don’t think it has much significance, based on how it’s been used and the way the narrative has been written. Indeed, this season explicitly indicated that Dany’s use of the phrase is really just a slogan (“Make Westeros Great Again!”), and that she doesn’t have any particular program behind it. The fact that it’s show-only is meaningful, as far as I’m concerned, because GRRM doesn’t just pull things out of nowhere, and if this story is leading toward major democratization/elective monarchy, we’d see some signs of that in the books. Now, maybe this is an element of the ending that D&D have decided to add on their own, in which case, fine. But even in that case, I don’t really see that based on the narrative choices they’ve made.

I’ve seen it suggested that the way the Meereen story ends is foreshadowing of this, but to me the offhand mention of the Meereenese sorting out the government of the city under Daario’s supervision is just a slapdash way of shuffling the city offscreen now that the writers want to get Dany out of there as expeditiously as possible.

The important part of that story is what we actually saw onscreen, since Team Dany spent two-and-a-half seasons in Meereen. In that time, there was no institution-building or constitutional process aimed at empowering citizens. Dany heard petitions, like any medieval monarch does, and sporadically asked for input from the governed in the form of representatives, but in both cases those representatives were individual characters introduced for specific narrative purposes who were not replaced after the characters fulfilled their story purpose and died. Mossador popped up out of nowhere as a representative of the Freedmen, but he only existed for Dany to execute him; once that happened, neither she nor Tyrion (when acting in Dany’s stead as viceroy) replaced him; the same with Hizdahr as a representative of the Master class.

Moreover, neither of those characters were assigned any actual legal power, nor do any of Dany’s advisors have that (or Jon’s, to bring him into the discussion; indeed, Jon rather explicitly this season doesn’t give a damn what any of his advisors think, not even the noble body that elected him). Dany is an autocrat, who is fine with taking suggestions and hearing from affected parties, but expects to make the decision on her own and for everybody to fall in line with what she alone decides (as does Jon). To the extent that she empowers anybody in Meereen, it’s only because she’s not intending to govern the place herself anymore.

Further, the characters of a story (particularly the main characters) are the biggest tell as to what a story is about. This is particularly true of the show, which generally views things only through the prism of main characters (e.g., Dorne effectively ceases to exist once Ellaria and her brood are wiped out), but it’s also true of the source material. There are no truly significant commoners in this story, and barely any side characters either (especially in the show). The kind of ending where the payoff is a real change in the role of commoners in society would, to my mind, necessitate there being some identifiable characters to illustrate this, but in neither medium are there such people. This is a story about nobles, and the conflict is between people like Cersei, for whom everybody is just a chattel, and people like the heroes, who are all

If something like the “break the wheel” suggested ending does happen, I’ll consider is very inadequately handled, for the above reasons.

I know people are quick to dismiss George’s original outline wholesale because of a few major plot points that were changed, but knowing how he originally envisioned this series playing out

tell you a thing or two about how subversive he actually is, which is what many people miss. He pretty much spelled out for the publisher that he planned to kill off a few decoy protagonists early on in order to distract people from the fact that his five central characters were safe. He planned an incestuous love story for two of his protagonists that was going to start off as a tortured forbidden romance and end on a happier note once Jon’s parentage came out. Regardless of what was cut, what stayed in, and what was re-purposed, it’s clear at this point that he isn’t on a mission to subvert every fantasy trope in existence. I’ve maintained for awhile that while GRRM readily subverted hero tropes for the Starks he killed off in Act 1, his Big 5 served as more of a deconstruction of various hero tropes. Through them, you get a strong sense of “be careful what you wish for.” Bran wanted to pursue a higher calling, Arya wanted to wield a sword and fight her enemies, and Jon wanted to be a hero and prove his worth. Seven seasons later, Bran’s tripping out on visions 24/7 and can’t even carry on a normal conversation, Arya’s target practice consisted of taking out people to avenge the deaths of half her family, and…say, how’s that fun task of being the (insert latest title here) in charge of saving the world from the ice apocalypse working out for you, Jon?

I would so love that! It would make up for Ghost’s absence from all of season 7

Although regarding Jon he had epic boat sex and I will quote Jon: “i am glad the end of the world is working out for someone”

He’s a true-born Targaryen. That’s a fact. Just like Daenerys, to whom he bent the knee.

If you accept that there would be discomfort over him bending the knee to Daenerys, then you surely cannot conclude that that discomfort would be alleviated by the revelation that their king is also a secret true-born Targaryen.

Sadly, I could see the producers glossing over the situation as well, just because they want to wrap things up neatly with Jon and Daenerys together.

There’s some very interesting discussion here.

It’s very interesting to see the points made about how Westeros will be governed in the aftermath of the conflict. There seems to be disagreement about whether that “better world” will look like.

I think they are a little bit in between a rock and an hard place in crafting this better world. Any weakening of the monarch means strengthening the nobility, and any weakening of the nobility means strengthening the monarch, and both are pretty important and repressive parts of the “wheel” that characters like Dany and Tyrion want to break.

If they do a proto-democratic reform, like having a national kingsmoot, it would strengthen the nobility, who in turn want to preserve a status quo that hurts the smallfolk. However, an “enlightened despot” is only a temporary reprieve from the problems that have persisted throughout the series. The war and bloodshed caused by competing claims on the throne will only continue during or after the rule of Dany or Jon or whoever ultimately wins. Meanwhile, any systemic change which empowers a monarch like Jon will also empower a future monarch like Joffrey; not sure if that’s really better long-term.

I also don’t know what kind of systemic change that could be made that would empower the monarch. A national army? I dunno, I actually find that kind of implausible. The nobility and the smallfolk would probably balk at making a king or queen even more powerful after surviving the reigns of the Mad King, Joffrey, and Cersei, and certainly to a Targaryen.

I actually think the kingsmoot idea is more plausible, and more satisfying, to me anyway. Yes, it’s imperfect, but it provides nobles an alternative to warfare when there’s an opening for the throne, so it ends that particular “wheel” and improves the world in that way. And unlike the crowing of an “enlightened despot,” it would arguably be the first of many steps towards a better future, whereas the crowing of Dany and Jon would just be the same thing that has happened in the past: one good ruler replacing a bad one, who could very easily be replaced by another bad one.

Asking us to believe that Westeros really has turned a new page in some important way just because the series ended with a good person on the throne would feel like a cheat; if the ultimate victor were to incorporate the reforms Tyrion discussed this season, however, it would feel more earned, even if the Westeros still has many of its imperfections.

It would be great! And a clever callback to Drogon’s reaction to Jon, and how Dany begins to trust him much more after that.

I love that scene! I made a comment, that we had to omit, that if one of the Greyjoy siblings die, I’d like their final moments to evoke that memory of Yara’s, of one sibling looking up at the other and smiling. Potentially, saccharine, but not in Alfie and Gemma’s hands

My predictions for season 8: – Episodes will be much longer. We saw with season 7 that hbo doesn’t have a problem anymore with longer episodes. They give D&D what they needed.

– the episode count will be the shortest of all seasons but the runtime the longest.

– D&D already wrote every episode and they know exactly what will happen in every episodes, in past season they could shift some scene to a later season, not anymore. They also stick with the 6 episode count. Even when they didn’t knew exactly how they would fill in the scenes. That tells me, they aren’t concerned with how long an episode will be, they know what will happen in an episode and it’s to the director to decide how he will put that on screen.

– even shackman (hope I remember the right director) stated that all episodes in season 6 could be longer than the final of season 7. And I think hbo is all in with the last season. A good last season means people will keep on watching hbo shows and other planetos shows.

Next comment I will comment about what I think will happen in the first episode.

Petra & Luka – awesome read! It will be an interesting season. I hope Cersei’s final round is delayed until the end – only because Lena Headey is truly wonderful in this role. I can’t imagine the last few episodes without Lena. I think the NK on the other hand… well… there’s a lot of build up but we’re not as emotionally vested as we are w Cersei; a love & hate relationship and we know her death is certain because of the prophecy – everyone else is a crap shoot.

Sansa may die or not, she’s not one of the survivors based on early GRRM drafts. I know writing drafts/paths change but nevertheless a clue. The story was initially about Jon & Arya. I read Arya, spelled Aria means a melody sung solo, hence, a song of ice & fire; GRRM said he wanted a rough sounding name for Arya, who knows – he’s a genius. I really don’t like the dark path Arya’s taken in s7, my least favorite moments. I would also love it if Jon & Arya have that same hug in season 1. I agree when Hotpie mentioned Jon to Arya, her expression did not fall short & it humanized Arya for that moment. As far as Sansa, the show’s really polishing her up for a political role; but I heard the dire wolves mirror the Stark’s death. I don’t know if this is true, but if this is so Lady dies as a result of Nymeria her dire wolf sibling. Sansa could die for Arya.

I think episode one will have an cold opening in which we see tormund and Beric running on the wall towards castle black. Once they arrived one of them shouts something like “the wall is down. White walkers has passed through. Ed will send out the ravens. We see one arriving at one of the northern castles. But it’s to late. The white walkers are already there. Killing everyone. End of cold opening.

The first scene after the intro will be Jon and daennerys at white harbor.

What we will see further is 2 scenes minimum at winterfell. At least one before the Raven arrives from castle black talking about jon = eagon. And one after.

We will see theon taking on euron. Or at least we will see theon. We will see the golden company. My prediction is that theon wins and will buy the golden company for deannerys.

We will see tyshoo at kings landing. Some hard to hard with cercei about losing Jaime and maybe his money.

The episode will end with Jon and Dannereys entering winterfell. Reunion time. This can also be the episode 2 opener.

The question is will jaime meet Jon and dany in the first episode. Or later?

Episode 2: preparation for white walker attack. Cercei will kill Tycho. She will lay preparation for any kind of invasion in kings landing. Doesn’t matter if it’s the dead, people or dragons. We will see visions of the past with Rheagar and lyanna. Jon finds out about his past and we find out dany is pregnant. End of the episode the white walkers attack winterfell. (As a Cliffhanger not the real battle)

Episode 3. First half is about white walkers attacking winterfell and they escape halfway through. Second half is that they need to go south of the neck. People flee south. They end being safe with the reeds

Episode 4: they are leaving the reeds. They need the help of the vale. We will see the vale. They decide to attack kings landing.

Episode 5: battle of kingslanding. Ends with the defeat of cercei. The night king is at kings landing.

Episode 6: battle with the night king. And the dead. Second half is about life after the war. Laying plans to rule, some kind of democracy. Who survives and what they will do for the rest of their lives.

How it will end I don’t know, only that it will be a step closer to democracy. Who will survives? I don’t know.

I’m not buying that Cersei actually is pregnant. Given that she lied to everybody, including Jaime, in the last episode, it could well be only a manifestation of her madness.

My other theory is that the baby, if real, is Qyburn’s. But I have to get really drunk to explicate that one.

I don’t think the show (or the books) will confirm it either way. Characters in the story will believe it was Jon and/or Dany, and who knows, there may be others, but there won’t be any ‘meta’ confirmation; it’s not like Martin or D&D will come out and say who it is in an book chapter or an episode of the show. Azor Ahai was important because of what he did; he didn’t have superpowers that marked him as the chosen one, really. Jon and Dany will save the realm, so they’ll be interpreted as the Princes that Were Promised.

Catspaw Assassin: I’m not buying that Cersei actually is pregnant.

She really is pregnant. That much has been confirmed.

I read all the comments (I need to get a life), and here are some stray thoughts.

Why would Sansa care about Shae? I doubt she even remembers the name, to be honest. Or maybe it’s because I never cared about Shae. Seriously, I was rewatching the earlier seasons and she was the worst part of Tyrion’s journey.

Wasn’t there a third Night King actor? I remember his first appearance in season 4’s Oathkeeper, turning one of Craster’s sons. He was so strange that I recall arguing if it wasn’t supposed to be a Night Queen instead. In hindsight, a Night Queen would’ve been much cooler. Imagine the theories!

landstander: Wasn’t there a third Night King actor? I remember his first appearance in season 4’s Oathkeeper, turning one of Craster’s sons. He was so strange

It was the same actor was the one from a season later, in Hardhome. It’s just that the prosthetics and the VFX were comparatively very underdeveloped.

Hi, I’m from Egypt and I’ve been following your website for sometime now and I’m in love with what you guys do in terms of bringing us GoT fans inside information and analysis about the series. Really, well done!

I have a theory about Jaime and I felt compelled to comment because your conversation was so interesting and eye-opening so I hope I might add to it.

I think Jaime will not head straight to Winterfell. The scene in which Arya met with a group of Lannister soldiers in Riverrun served as reminder that there is still a lannister force in Rivverrun and most probably Jaime will gather this force before heading to Winterfell. We might actually see Edmure again as he’s most likely imprisoned there. What do you guys think

Luka Nieto: She really is pregnant. That much has been confirmed.

Proving once again that my success rate for prophecy matches that of the average television evangelist. 😉

Red comet finally hits. Preferably landing on Cersei or Sansa. The end.

Ramsay’s 20th Good Man: The only way that works is if they never find out about his parentage.

His parentage undermines his right to have ever ruled The North in the first place. He’s a Targaryen. Marrying another Targaryen would surely just exacerbate Northern discontent.

Once he realises he’s a Targaryen he’ll surely do the honourable thing and acknowledge that The North belongs to Sansa.

If he does end up marrying Daenerys then he’ll do so as a Targaryen heir to the Iron Throne, and The North should decide whether or not to bend the knee.

If Jon remains King or Warden of the North after his parentage is revealed then I’ll be pretty disappointed with the show. It doesn’t make sense according to the characterisation of Jon or The North.

Jon is the kind of man who will tell the Lords the truth and will offer to step down and Sansa rule. Sansa has done a good job of managing things to prepare the North for the Winter, but she’s not equipped to deal with the Night King and his army and I’m guessing they will know that.

I suppose it’s possible the Northern Lords are stupid enough to tell the Targaryens to take a hike but I doubt it considering the threat they are facing. I’m sure Glover and a few other Lords will be pissy about it for a bit, because that seems to be what they do. But this Targaryen is still an adopted son of Ned STARK and true born son of Lyanna STARK and Prince Rhaegar Targaryen, born in Westeros and raised at Winterfell. He wasn’t elected King because he was a legitimate son anyway.

Jon was elected because he fought in the battle of the bastards (and personally beat the crap out of Ramsay in single combat), reunited the North, made allies of their former enemies (Free Folk) and is trying to save the North from the existential threat from the army of the dead.

He had the good judgment to name Sansa to manage things in the North while he went in pursuit of dragon glass and allies, a mission at which he succeeded.

I guess to make some “drama” D&D can have the Lords call for the Targaryens to be booted out of Winterfell or for Jon to be dethroned, which would be incredibly stupid since they need the allied forces and Daenerys’ army and dragons are the main part of their forces.

That said, I can see the Lords only being willing to bend the knee to their Targaryen, and not the foreign one. That could cause drama between Dany and Jon, not because he wants the throne but because it puts Jon in the position of spoiler and he has bigger problems to worry about.

I’ve been calling the recent Night King ‘Sad Muppet’ and half-expecting him to say ‘meep!’ at some point, but I have to say that Jimmy is a much better name.

oh my god so much to consider! Great article Haven’t read comments but I wanted to bring this up:

I always picture them eating breakfast together. It makes no sense, but I always picture them in a kitchen, at a circular table, eating cereal. So I have this mental image of Daenerys, Sansa, and Arya in that awkward setting, and Sansa or Arya being like “So, you’re my my brother’s new girlfriend?” I don’t think Sansa and Arya are going to be happy that Jon bent the knee to a foreign invader.

Heh, perhaps as uncomfortable as Ramsey’s dinner table scene or Sams with his father!

You mention Mists of Avalon, one of my fav books of all time (I haven’t read it for decades suspect it a bit dated). But yeah that scene when they find out they are related was incredible and led to a very interesting take on the legend

Shae deserved every bit of that.Tyrion shouldn’t feel badly in any way, shape, or form.Shae actually reached for a knife to try and kill Tyrion before he did anything to her.Not to mention that she betrayed him in almost every possible way.

Totally agree. I’ll grant you that she perhaps was ‘persuaded’ to act as she did, but if she loved Tyrion as she said she did, she would not have betrayed him this way.

Lilian: I think Jaime will not head straight to Winterfell. The scene in which Arya met with a group of Lannister soldiers in Riverrun served as reminder that there is still a lannister force in Rivverrun and most probably Jaime will gather this force before heading to Winterfell. We might actually see Edmure again as he’s most likely imprisoned there. What do you guys think

yes! I love this theory. Not only would we get another great scene w edmure and jaime but also Jaime would get North with somthing to offer Dany & co. Yeah it’s not Cersei’s whole army, but a small Lannister force would still be a big help. Plusit ups the stakes of all interactions between characters at Winterfell.

I also think that a Jaime in Riverrun scene in Episode 1 is likely, perhaps installing Edmure back in Riverrun and rallying the Riverlands with some of the Lannister forces to head North (or somewhere).

My question is how the NK’s campaign will go. I see three basic possibilities:

1. NK goes to WF and the Battle of the Dawn is there. The Stark/Targaryen alliance takes care of Cersei and KL at the end of the season. This seems like it evolves too quickly for a six episode season.

2. NK goes to WF, is repulsed (dragon battle?), and goes to KL. Battle for Dawn is at KL. (One can imagine a reverse scene where Jon is standing in the battlements of WF and stares down the NK, who moves south to get more wights). Getting repulsed at WF seems a bit odd, but it could set up tensions with the Northern lords/Vale about whether to march South to save the rest of Westeros.

— An alternative is that WF is bypassed in order for the NK to raise more wights, but this seems unlikely.

3. NK goes to WF, WF is taken and the Champions of Life retreat with columns of refugees, perhaps heading to Riverlands. NK proceeds to KL and the Battle for Dawn is at KL. This seems like it could encompass a lot of storylines, but a retreat from WF in the midst of winter seems awfully messy.

There are many variations of course, including a retreat to the Neck and the battle of the Dawn happens there. Will be interesting!

I like that theory. Jaime being actually useful and would make Tyrion look like less of an idiot if Jaime shows up with an army versus by himself.

I like those options. I have no idea which way it goes but I have to think Winterfell is called Winterfell for a reason and will play some role in winter’s fall so had been leaning towards 1 but 2 or 3 seem more likely from a drama perspective as everyplot line converges into one final climax.

Pigeon: Red comet finally hits. Preferably landing on Cersei or Sansa. The end.

Nice one – but that’s an ‘apocalyptic’ ending rather than a ‘bittersweet’ one! Perhaps not quite the idea that D&D (or GRRM) have to conclude the story 😉

The Whitewalkers are unstoppable and the more they kill the bigger the army and the more unstoppable they become – it’s basically a bloodbath – character after character will die. (Nikolaj Coster-Waldau has spoken about characters becoming wights in this season 8 and hopes its not him because the hours of makeup!)

Cersei’s fall has to be connected with her greatest failure – her unwillingness to join the anti-whitewalker alliance – Kings Landing falls to the WhiteWalkers – this is teased in the “How many people in Kingslanding”. Then Dany’s remaining Dragon or Dragons torch the city – thus the vision of the dragon flying flying over Kings Landing and the burnt out Red Keep.

It’s not going to end with a classic Jon vs NightKing – Martin (I presume we’re roughly getting Martin’s ending) wouldn’t end with such a cliche. If the fight happens the NightsKing kills Jon.

Why do we have a trained assassin, now with a Valyrian steel dagger, running around? Arya’s role is to take out the NightsKing. Game Over.

Interesting folks, very interesting. These are my thoughts.

1. Dany is pregnant by Jon (Aegon). First, its the Targaryen way. Second, how better to carry on the legacies of Mihasa and the Khaleesi. My sense, given the usual outcomes of such things in most myths and legends, is that Dany does not survive the birth. And then since we are in high mythos territory, is it one child or two? My money is on twins, in mythos, its always twins. It would make sense for these children, to be reared by those closest to Dany and two characters who I suspect will become her most critical allies, the Sisters Stark.

2. Jon/Aegon. Mr. Straightarrow aka the Westerosi Capt. America, is going to have some seriously dark nights of the soul. It’s true. All of his life he has known nothing, really run away from almost everything except getting his ass out of some seriously bad situations. Seriously the first ballsy thing Jon did was execute the men who had stabbed him to death and then use the technicality of having been dead to quit being Commander of the Night’s Watch. Now he’s going to have to marry a woman who is a blood relative and military rival and heroic character in her own right so that their child/children will be (a) legitimate and (b) unquestionably The Heirs to The Iron Throne. I have never been able to clearly see Jon or Dany on the throne. I can see their children as the next generation of rulers and, I see Jon not entirely disappearing from the scene. We have been shown how the White Walker were created. We have seen that something happened to Benjen that left him human enough but still somehow impacted by his encounter with the White Walkers. My sense is something similar could happen to Jon/Aegon making him the Prince That Was Promised and possibly the dragon-riding immortal Guardian of the North. Yes its a stretch, but it plays.

3. The Last of the Lannisters. If she is actually pregnant, Qyburn probably had something to do with it. If that’s the case, what will probably drive Cersei over the edge is if the baby is something of a monster. My money is on Arya killing Cersei most likely wearing Littlefinger’s face. Varys dies helping Arya get to Cersei. Arya gets Casterly Rock. She so deserves it. Jamie is going to die redeeming himself after making his confession of guilt to Bran. I agree Bran will go all Three-Eyed Raven shaman/mystic “of course you are forgiven because I would never have gotten where I am without you.” But, and I know this is a big ask, could Jamie and Brienne, well you know. Its not like she’s that into Tormund (who might be dead anyway) and she and Jamie almost got there, what in Season 2 or was it 3? And no man deserves to go to his death without the love (at least once in his life) of a really good woman.

4. Aegon v. the Night’s King. I’m forsworn as one of the Watchers, so I think I got this from some of the “read the books lore” but isn’t there a legend that the Night’s King was once a Lord Commander of the Night’s Watch? It would be totally romantic and perfect if Aegon aka Jon Snow fights the Night’s King in a duel on dragons. Dany will have died so Aegon will be fighting to protect his children, his family and all who have fought with him and died for Dany and her vision of a broken wheel.

5. Final point: Sansa resumes her marriage to Tyrion.

I do realize hundreds of people have probably written this by now (I’ve been woefully absent from WotW due to new job/getting re-accustomed to day shift/catatonia), but I think that a) you’re on the right track with dislodging the dragonglass, and b) the dagger now in Arya’s possession is going to have a major,

part in the endgame. Bran handed it over to her in a way that seemed almost careless, but imo it was (contrary to outward appearances) very calculated.

I agree! As much as I want Jamie and Brienne to have as many scenes together as possible, this makes sense.

The show also showed Jamie talking to generals about the threat before he left, so there is potential there… a mutiny to join him later?

Another poster suggested the Northern refugees could be blocked by Lannister forces, in that case Jamie may convince them to stand aside/join up.

What would be bittersweet, is if Jamie has sneak back in and blowup KLs, after its taken by the NK to stop the spread of the NK army.

I predict that some form of High King style leadership will be introduced, a vote by a restricted group to elect a leader from within themselves. Baby steps to democracy. And Tyrion already introduced the idea…

I like your suggestion. I don’t see Jon/Aegon surviving to be the King on the Iron Throne. If he survives, he will be something else.

Nice one – but that’s an ‘apocalyptic’ ending rather than a ‘bittersweet’ one! Perhaps not quite the idea that D&D (or GRRM) have to conclude the story 😉

….close up shot of desolate, ruined city. Further on, we see that some forest remains….

*shifting of various small pieces of rubble. Out pops the face of Ghost. Nymeria. Ser Pounce. A couple of pissed off crows. A tiny kraken and a fish in a puddle. A stag and a lion play cards in the background. A bearded dragon and a snake skitter by.*

Yep, my thoughts also. Remove the dragon glass shard from the NK and he will lose his power and the entire army of the dead will crumble to bones and ashes.

We saw a glimpse of this in Ep6? When Jon killed the WW leading the scouting patrol, all the wights disintegrated barring one (which perhaps was not under his control) which was the one they brought back to KL. So perhaps killing the NK (or removing the dragon glass shard from his heart) will destroy his lieutenants which in turn will take down the wights under their control?

Perhaps with Sam’s help from the books he took from the Citadel and with Bran’s 3ER abilities such info could by passed to Jon and Dany to defeat the army of the dead? I’m sure there will be a few epic battle scenes and with the dragons doing their thing, but I reckon that’s how the Great War will be won?

We have six episodes left. Six. Six. There is no way we will see more of Rhaegar and Lyanna. And, honestly, who cares. The average (meaning non nerd) viewer knows that he was the crown prince, met Lyanna at a tournament, got smitten by her as she by him, obviously found a way to keep in touch and decided to elope. What is more to know?

And I don’t think we will be seeing the Reeds either. But I am not absolute about that.

Jon will not care about the Iron Throne, but will mind the blood relation… until the pregnancy revelation comes along and he lets go.

I do not see Daenerys dying and, honestly, I don’t understand this whole Mad Queen hypothesis. I never saw her as mad. She made some poor choices, but mad? She is not dying because a) she has to give birth b) try killing your female lead and keep the male alive and kicking. The audience will skin you alive.

Plus, Daenerys’ purpose was to get to the Iron Throne. Jon’s was bringing Dawn. He does not need to survive to the end to do that. Still, I love him. You love him. Everybody loves him. He is not dying. This will be a conventional ending.

Beric and Tormund won’t die so soon. Beric was brought back six times, dammit. I mean he must have a reason to be there. Do something great before dying. Standing on the Wall watching an ice dragon is not something great. So he will go on until he saves Jon’s life or something.

Bronn will. And Varys. And of course Melisandre. I hope ser Davos stays alive. He doesn’t do much, but we all love him.

Now, about strategy: if I were Jon, instead of reinforcing the Umbers and the Karstarks, I would have all houses abandon their castles taking their supplies, send the elderly, the sick and the young children to Bear Island (the wights don’t swim), and gather all my forces for a big deciding battle at Winterfell. Short of like Marathon. Or Thermopylae, but hopefully with a better ending. I can’t see the point in dividing forces in small castles allover.

And if I were the Night King, I would just take my dragon, burn (or freeze) down every living soul south of the Wall and be quick about it. It’s a good thing the Night King will not prove himself a much better strategist than Jon et Co.

I was thinking the same thing. Everyone keeps on saying that Jon or Dany have to die or both. I disagree, you would be doing a disservice to Dany’s story if she never sits on the iron throne or rules. That has been her entire story from the beginning. I understand that not everything goes as planned, Killing her before she even gets to sit on the iron throne will ruin her story.

I’m so glad you brought this up; it’s a splendid scene, and one in which Tyrion, in true Tyrion style, sees a person’s character and (hidden) gifts long before anyone else does.

Yep, that sounds more like it. Just a few of our favorite animals are all that remain after the apocalypse when the red comet hits Planetos 😀

Thank you so much for this comment. (My, ahem, Dornish-red-addled mind can neither reason as well as you right now, nor formulate a better thank-you.)

Given that Edmure was mentioned to Jaime by Walder at the end of S6, and that the conversation between Edmure and Jaime was (imho) one of the best of that season, my first thought when I saw Jaime “take the black” (so to speak) at the end of S7 was that he would encounter Edmure again on his way north. I just can’t imagine that D&D will leave that hanging.

I don’t know if we’ll have time, as I’m assuming Jon And Dany arrive winterfell right away and are greeted with the news. But a nice scene between them where they both acknowledged their first love, and have a conversation about that. Strengthening their relationship in open dialogue about loss of a loved one.

Scenes I’d like to see: 1. Sandor the Hound Clegane finds himself in a fight with his older brother the undead Mountain who is of course by the side of Queen Cersei. Sandor kills Cersei during the fight, possible choking her while pushing her aside in an effort to get to his real objective, his brother. The Valonqar prophecy is fulfilled since Sandor is the little brother. Season 7 blatantly foreshadowed with great Cleganebowl fan service a meeting of the brothers so I think this it is plausible for Sandor to kill Cersei.

2. When Jon and Arya finally reunite, Gendry is beside him, just behind in the shadows. Jon calls Arya’s name with an open arm gesture for a hug, but Arya with a proud smile looks as if she is going to bend the knee to him with her hand on Needle instead and starts to say My Lord (or Your Grace) just as she hears Gendry’s voice from behind say excitedly “Ari, My Lady) stepping forward into the light bowing slightly to her. Arya turns in amazement and delight “Gendry?” and jumps joyfully into his unexpecting arms flinging her arms around his neck in a mirroring of her childhood jump into Jon’s arms. Gendry says “That wasn’t very Ladylike!” mirroring his comment when she pushed him down back in the Night’s Watch convoy scene, but hugging her with great joy “I told you you would always be my Lady”. Jon smiles on this scene a bit miffed but clearly pleased.

3. Bran 3Eyed Raven wargs successfully into Ice Dragon Viserion causing the fall or grounding of the Night’s King in the peak of a dragon and rider battle. He lands near Daenerys who has been brought to the ground beside a wounded Drogon. The Nights King grabs her arm and thrusts his ice saber toward her. Daenerys softly but firmly commands “dracarys” and Drogon bathes them both in dragonfire, joined by Rhaegal ridden by Jon. After the appropriate moments of tense “Who will emerge from the tornado of fire?” an unburned but naked Daenerys appears, looking faint, one hand gripping a bloody, mortal looking gash near her heart. There is nothing left of the Night’s King except the dragonglass shard that was in his heart lying on the flame blazed but still snowy ground. The army of the dead drop and dissolve. Jon has landed and runs to catch Daenerys as she starts to fall. Bran 3 Eyed Raven in his vision mode walks up to the couple and tells the sad and distressed Jon to pick up the dragonglass shard and press it into the dying Daenerys’ wound. They all know what it will happen if he does and Daenerys gives him a small nod of assent. Jon slowly presses the shard into her wound as he kisses her for the last time. She turns ice blue white, but her eyes are still dark. She tells Jon to take care of their child (born in a previous episode). Her eyes turn blue. She walks slowly to Ice Dragon Viserion whos eyes return from white as bran unwargs from him. Daenerys lays her hand on his cheek. He raises his head. She mounts him and flys off toward the North, the sky lightening and the storm settling noticeable as she fades into the Northern horizon. Drogon and Rhaegal roar forlornly. Jon mounts Rhaegal and flys the opposite direction, toward Winterfell on the Horizon.

A few more thoughts…Ghost and Nymeria have a litter of Direwolves… Gendry discovers the secret to forging Valeryan steel… Melissandre sacrifices herself to a flaming pyre in order to hatch a dragon from an egg that was discovered (laid by Rhaegal just as Daenerys gave birth to Jon’s child and Nymeria gave birth to her pups).

I don’t necessarily think Jaime will pledge his services to Dany, but to the Starks.

There’s an interesting aspect to the way Jaime is positioned to the four (counting Jon) Stark children:

The vow to Catelyn to protect Sansa and Arya (the Blackfish brought this up last season and reminded the viewers). It would make sense if he, like Brienne, offered his services to the Stark girls.

The incident with Bran – Jaime can’t find real redemption for it but he can offer his services and life to Bran, to do as he sees fit.

Plus, he promised Rhaegar to protect his children, but he failed (Jaime at least feels like he did – in truth, he didn’t realise what was happening until it was too late, but he is haunted by it in the books. It hasn’t come up yet in the show but it might…). Jon is his last chance to fulfill that promise. (Depending on when and how everyone finds out about Jon’s heritage. And depending on how clear they’re going to make it that Jaime is one of the last few people around who knew Rhaegar.)

1. Either Dany or Jon or both will die. The death may transform them into something else rather than fully removing them, but this is not a fairy tale and the idealistic heroic lovers are doomed. Jon may get Benjened or warg into Ghost, Dany may become a Night King opposite in the form of a Fire Queen. Who knows. But they will not rule Westeros together happily ever after, unharmed by the Great War.

2. Either Jaime or Tyrion will die by way of Widow’s Wail. I strongly believe this will represent the “lion tempering”. Widow’s Wail will then be reforged by Gendry. This will be the final “shattering”. Tyrion may die because of whatever he does to get in the way of Jon and Dany, or Jaime may die because of his past crimes against the North. Either way, it will be quite early in the season with a strong impact on subsequent events.

3. Arya will use the face of a main character. My guess is she will use the face of either Jaime or Tyrion, whichever one of them dies. She will use this face to get access to and kill Cersei, fulfilling the prophesy of Cersei’s death. In her mission South she will be accompanied by the Hound who will finally get his wish.

4. Bran will be key in getting around the threat of Viserion and the NK via a key moment of warging. This might kill or seriously injure him if he deliberately wargs the beast toward its death.

Sandor = Warrior of Light = AA Check out Show!Melisandre’s recitals of the prophecies.

I’m from Egypt and I’ve been following your website for sometime now and I’m in love with what you guys do in terms of bringing us GoT fans inside information and analysis about the series. Really, well done!

I think Jaime will not head straight to Winterfell. The scene in which Arya met with a group of Lannister soldiers in Riverrun served as reminder that there is still a lannister force in Rivverrun and most probably Jaime will gather this force before heading to Winterfell. We might actually see Edmure again as he’s most likely imprisoned there.What do you guys think

Honestly, I hadn’t even considered the possibility … but I love it! We did mention Edmure initially, but it got cut on the edit; Petra and I agreed he was a loose end that needs to be tied, but we had no idea how. Since we didn’t have any proper theory, we cut it from the dialogue. But your theory works great! This way, Jaime may take control of the Lannister army stationed at Riverrun, free Edmure, and together they could take some Lannisters and Tullys North. I like that idea very much!

Spring Child: I don’t necessarily think Jaime will pledge his services to Dany, but to the Starks.

You’re right, of course. I said Daenerys because Jon bent the knee to her, so she’s the boss now, but you’re right. It’s much more meaningful if Jaime pledges his sword to the three Starks, both to redeem himself for Bran’s attempted assassination and to maintain his oath to Catelyn to keep Sansa and Arya safe.

I’m wondering if Bronn and Pod are done for. Both left the Dragonpit meeting together. Pod is closely linked to Brienne, and Bronn to both Jaime and Tyrion. Cersei is a vengeful bitch and Jaime just left her. I wouldn’t be surprised if 2 of our favourite sidekicks are goners.

Jaime never vowed to keep the Stark girls safe exactly. What he promised was that he would return them (safely). But now they are returned, and there is no obligation left on his part towards their protection.

However the part of his vow that has not yet been fulfilled is the return of Ice. Yes, half of it returned North with Brienne, but not the other half. So returning Widow’s Wail to the Starks is the remaining thing he needs to do to fulfill his vow.

However his return to Winterfell will not be easy. There is the remaining issue of what he did to Bran. Bran doesn’t remember right now, but will once he sees him based on how the three eyed raven process seems to work.

There is also his murder of his guards while a prisonner to escape the Northern camp, and other crimes the North will have difficulty forgetting. It will be interesting.

I predict that the spin off that has been mentioned will be Arya and Gendry off to search “whats west of west”… a muderous buddy series set in Sothoryos. Maybe the Hound can go along for be ride!

Disagree – I think Jon will still see himself as a Snow/Stark even though his surname is Targaryen and the Northerners will come around eventually too. He was chosen as King in the North not because of his surname but because of his leadership skills and achievements…those haven’t gone away just because his parentage is different to what we originally thought.

I’m wondering if Bronn and Pod are done for. Both left the Dragonpit meeting together. Pod is closely linked to Brienne, and Bronn to both Jaime and Tyrion. Cersei is a vengeful bitch and Jaime just left her. I wouldn’t be surprised if 2 of our favourite sidekicks are goners.

I think you are making too big a deal out of the fact we didn’t see them again. They are secondary characters. No explanation is needed for how they get to where they go next but they are not stranded in KL.

Pod will show up with Brienne when we see her next. An explanation of how exactly they joined up again is not needed.

Bronn will either chase after Jaime, still trying to get his castle and bride, or he will leverage Cersei to get his castle and bride. Cersei has the backing of the Iron Bank and knows that Bronn is loyal to gold after all. And he is a soldier while she just lost the commander of her army.

Either way I think he will get himself named the new lord of the Twins.

Thank you. I don’t know why so many GRRM fans practice selective comprehension of his words and intentions regarding this body of his many works.

Some more notes on characters mentioned in the article:

1. Beric. I think you are wrong he dies by WW attack. Yes, his position is dangerous, but the narrative needs him to fulfill his pirpose, which he has not yet done. We don’t yet have a reason for his existence really, in particular his revivals and his flaming sword.

He needs to “pass on” his final life to a character that matters more than he does at some point. And I genuinely believe he is supposed to pass it on to someone who has a connection to the mission Ned sent him on way back in season 1 which was to protect the smallfolk and bring the Mountain to justice. So Beric will make it to Winterfell not because he needs to warn anyone, but because he needs to pass on his life.

2. Brienne’s narrative arc is a counterpoint to Jaime and her fate is tied to that. She will encounter an impossible choice of oath versus oath at some point. If she survives the series, IMO she has been set up to complete Jaime’s entry in the White Book, which implies she will become LC of someone’s King’s/Queen’s guard. Because it is the LC who does the entries in the White Book.

Yes. This was my initial thought when we saw Jaime ride off in his black cape. I love the idea that he heads to the Riverlands to rally whatever forces still remain before heading North. He has to show up in WF with something more than Widow’s Wail).

And I would hope that there is a scene between Jaime and Bran. I have been waiting for it since episode 1.

Cersei’s fall has to be connected with her greatest failure – her unwillingness to join the anti-whitewalker alliance– Kings Landing falls to the WhiteWalkers – this is teased in the “How many people in Kingslanding”.Then Dany’s remaining Dragon or Dragons torch the city – thus the vision of the dragon flying flying over Kings Landing and the burnt out Red Keep.

I agree with the suggestion that Cersei’s fall has to be connected with her refusal to protect humanity. However, I don’t think that the White Walker Army will get as far as KL. They will be stopped in the North.

I also don’t believe that Euron returns to Cersei with the Golden Company. He will try to seize power for himself (and ultimately fail). At the end of the story, Cersei will be without allies other than Qyburn and Gregor and will be desperate.

4.Aegon v. the Night’s King.I’m forsworn as one of the Watchers, so I think I got this from some of the “read the books lore” but isn’t there a legend that the Night’s King was once a Lord Commander of the Night’s Watch?It would be totally romantic and perfect if Aegon aka Jon Snow fights the Night’s King in a duel on dragons.Dany will have died so Aegon will be fighting to protect his children, his family and all who have fought with him and died for Dany and her vision of a broken wheel.

Just based on the accelerated pace of events we’re heading into now that the Wall has fallen, I don’t see any way that Miracle Baby is born prior to the resolution of the battle with the Night King. That would require not the pregnancy to be well over prior to the final couple of episodes, and Dany isn’t even known to be pregnant yet. So if you think the baby is going to be born, Dany won’t die in the fight with the Night King.

I too hope that Jaime offers his sword to TE starks. He has no use of it really – Ned’s sword should be wielded by a better fighter, a north man. however the vow he made and means to keep – to ride north and fight the threat – was to Dany as the leader of that group.

1. Sansa – Lady of Winterfell and warden of the North

One of the few characters i’m certain will survive. She has survived all of her human enemies and seeing as her characters not a fighter, I see no satisfying death for her, being killed by wights would be so strange. She is truly the last real Stark and is the character most intimately tied to WF alive. Taking in account words such as “there must always be a Stark in Winterfell” and her story arc so far, this is the only natural ending for her IMO – Unless, wait for it, she falls in love with Gendry (a fast forward relation, such as Faramir and Eowyn in Return of the King) and becomes his lady. It would be fitting for Sansa to have a happy ending considering all the things that have happened to her (her conversation with Littlefinger about being happy is also a clue).

Arya is my second 100% survivor. Seeing her die at the hands of the NK or a wight would be so unfitting, and Cercei killing her is plotwise near impossible (and wierd). She also said to Sansa “our stories aren’t over yet” in s.7. She will leave Westeros after the realm is saved and go west, like she told lady Crane. It will be a Frodo-esque affair. She doesn’t belong in Westeros anymore, she was born to run wild. Thats not her. Quite simple. (Also, George promised his wife she wouldn’t die).

Bran is already dead. The three eyed raven has one purpose, to defeat the army of the dead. There is simply no room for him in the spring. He will probably die similarly to the last three eyed raven, being killed by a WW, magic or a horde of wights. – Or, Bran becomes somekind of Bran the builder character, reubuilding Westeros, possibly with magic, IDK.

Jon died in s.5, he was brought back for a reason (imagine Berics voice). He has overextended his stay, and when is mission is over he will perish, but not before securing his legacy in Daenerys’s belly. He will die as he lived, as a shield guarding the realms of men and his child will be the heir to the Iron throne.

She won’t die in s.8, mainly because she needs to deliver her child first. I believe she will never get over Jon’s death but rule as queen nonetheless with their child as heir. But I am very uncertain. Maybe her becoming queen is to predictable? IDK, but I do believe that she will live, her pregnancy is a Dream of Spring.

6. Tyrion – Dead or de facto Ruler of Westeros

Another character I am very uncertain about. I do think people are to quick to put him in the “living” pile. It feels like there is a buildup for him doing something heroic, something no one expected of him. There is something going on with him, I felt it in ep 6 and 7. But otherwise him ruling as hand and finally getting his vineyard could be a great ending too. He is a lot gloomier than he was in s.1 (mainly because of events in s.4) but he isn’t a true cynic anymore, so that ending for him might be considered bittersweet.

6. Jaime – Dead or Lord commander of the Nights watch

Jaime really only has two choices to finally redeem himself, dying or joining the NW. Dying could be done in conjunction with an eventual slaying of queen, or in the arms of a certain large Beauty but him leading a new, reformed NW could be awesome. It would fit ironically with his first scene with Jon in s.1, mocking him for the choice to take the black, and also how he puts the black glove over his golden hand when he rides north in s.7.

Without question she will die, most likely at the hands of Jaime. Only other person I could see killing her is Arya, but I wouldn’t like that.

As in the case with Jaime, some things just can’t be forgiven. Theon cannot produce heirs, has no personal want for a throne or any lifestyle at all for that matter, he just wants to save Yara. It’s pretty straightforward IMO.

He has commited himself to Daenerys and has really nothing left to give but his life. Seeing her with a child that isn’t his would also be cruel for him. He is a troubled character with no intention of doing anything else in life but serving Dany. He will 100% die for her in s.8.

He wasn’t just brought back to die in the last season, he will do some awesome smithing, be naturalized and become a lord. Maybe marry Sansa? He will be one of the “new generation” characters though.

I think that we’ll get to see some preparations for the WW army – perhaps Gentry makes more dragonglass weapons, or /and – if Sam discovers the ‘how to’ – Valyrian steel. Same time Sam dives into the History of Westeros and finds some important info about how to defeit the NK or something like that and he shares with Bran, who has a relevant vision that finally answers what happened at the Long Night thousands of years ago, and why they didn’t kill NK off back then. (perhaps he can’t be killed as long as there is magic in the world, like dragons and etc)

Jon and Dany arrive at Wintefell and Jon finds out about his parentage. Knowing a bit of Jon, he will likely be shocked by the truth. I don’t think he’ll share it right away with Dany, but more likely keep to himself until he has some actual proof of it. BUT with ALL that people gathered at Winterfell, it is likely someone learns about this and tells it to Dany, who knowing her a bit is likely to be furious that Jon didn’t share it with her and that there’s a rival to the throne.

Dany will likely find out she’s pregnant. Whether she’ll tell Jon or not – I think that at least at first she’ll keep that a secret too. Getting pregnant is a big deal to her arc and if it changes her arc it’s important to the story as she is one of the main characters. Not only that changes all her internal make up which was build around losing her child and never getting another baby as a price for blood magic and investing all that emotion to her dragons, but also because her priority will be to save this child and its father. She’d give her life to protect them. And Dany had a vision of the IT in ashes or snow in a KL that seems eliminated. She went beyond the wall and found in that hat Drogo and child. That kind of gives a clue for her fate. That must be used in the narrative of the story – at least I would use it if I were writing the story!

Jon and Dany eventually make up and fight together, until or if – according to my view, Dany somehow dies.

Mel comes back to the North – hopefully with a good number of Red God followers ready to fight by the living side. She also brings her magic knowledge. She knows blood magic and she may propose using it. That would demand royal blood as we know which, I’m sure that at least Dany and Varys will reject that as a solution. Or perhaps Mel has had a fire vision, that tells something about the fate of a main character and tries to do something about it. We know she will die – she has seen it – and I don’t think that someone will kill her for revenge. More likely that she gives her life to achieve something essential for the war. Same for Beric who, like others have mentioned, may pass his firesword and its secrets to the Hound.

Bran, will likely help with his greenseeing and search into the past for crucial information. He may try to warg into a dragon – 3 eyed raven told him he’d fly, and I don’t think he meant warging into simple ravens. Maybe he will literally need to ride a dragon, or warg into one when needed. I think that Bran is a key to the story, something he does or discovers will be of outmost importance. A meeting between Bran and Mel would be very interesting.

Jamie as Lilian mentions could gather some Lannister troops and Edmure and join the rest at Winterfell – yes I’d love that too Lilian, it’s a brilliant idea that you had!

He will tell of course Tyrion that Cercei has betrayed them and about hte Golden Co. so they will need to take measures about that. I think it would be a great redemption point for his arc, if he dies to save Bran.

Jon will likely need to face the NK with his allies; Arya, Nymeria and rest of direwolves pack along with Ghost, stand to fight by the humans. But they can’t kill the NK. I don’t think (and definitely don’t want that to happen) Jon dies perhaps someone sacrifices himself to save him. I have mentioned before many reasons for that. More likely that he survives and he’s frustrated that he can’t kill the NK and and beat himself for all the casualties.

That’s where Bran, Sam Mel and Dany might come in. The solution I think will be found between those characters. But while that’s happening they need to retreat to safer grounds and they lose Winterfell. I think their final stand might happen at another place.

Meanwhile the Golden Company that never break their contract arrive and Cercei sends them to retake grounds and attack the others. BUT Golden company leader, realizes that they’re fighting for the wrong side (either due to WW threat or something else, maybe the Iron bank does something), and join Jon and Co in the North breaking their contract . OR Euron – who has hired them – uses them against Cercei and takes KL. (karma is a bitch Cercei!). (OR Arya uses LF’s face and kills Cercei off on the 1st episode. That would be awesome!)

That’s about when I’d like to see an epic battle against the NK where he is finally defeited somehow, around episode 5.

Euron- I’d like Yara to kill him.

That’s as far as my tinfoiling – wishful thinking -goes for now!

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