snapeislove dumbledore didnt commit suicide, he just wanted to be sure that he's death (also knowing the fact that he's dying) will be worthy.. and i must repeat, mass-murderer's arent given a 2nd chance, if you're talking about pettigrew, it is clear that harry has his own reason to spare him. about the snape stuff, about lily who is incapable to give the "evil guy" (as you said) his 2nd chance, its not ONLY the 'mudblood' issue, snape is showing some potentials of being a death eater. remember what lily said? : "you've chosen your way, i've chosen mine.." ..cheers, lets not be angry guys.. its just a chit-chat.. hee hee..

LoveDraco123 XDRoseLuvsHp: Slytherin is meant to be for the proud, ambitious... and it never said that all bad people go in Slytherin. There were people in there that were never introduced- but who didn't really do anything bad either. Draco had a good side, Snape was never really completely evil. Notice that I am not bashing- just debating. Lol xD

haropuff95 I don't understand u Sophia21.. 1.Harry is determined to fight himself,he didn't ask other to do it for him,if he did,its called cooperation,and that's how everyday life works,with people cooperating with each other. If you were about to fall off a cliff with one finger hanging to the tip of it,you won't scream for help?you'll ask your friend to run/leave you over there so that other teens watching you can learn from you,not to work with other people? If HP was going to give the moral;do everything yourself.Don't ask for help.Wouldn't that lead teens to become close-minded if they think they have to do everything themselves?is this the moral you preferred? 2.not everyone think Snape is a saint,and no one is unintelligent enough to visit a naked old man,are u underestimating teens these days? 3.marry the charming douchbag?Krum is a star Quidditch player,many girls went for him although he can replaces a vulture's place anytime with his look.He's intelligent & brave,or else he won't make it into the Triwizard Tournament.he's indeed famous,talented & treat Hermione lovely,yet she still go for Ron,the shadow boy who's her bestfriend & quite an un-fabulous one. 4.I agree with RoseLuvHP,didn't give someone a second chance & look what it had done to him(Snape).Pettigrew may killed many people in the ways,but look,mercy made him redeems his own mistake in the end,if only he didn't owe Harry,he'll probably choked him & they can't have the Chosen One any more to have a two-on-two with Dark Lord.Does a good hero supposed to beat the crap out of someone just because he disgusts the hero?that will be a far creepier message than give someone a second chance. 5.Again,do u think teens will follow some wizards boy who're leaving school to save the world,their family finances or their neck because of a Dark Wizard?I wanna see how. 6.slightly injury?oh,I know,Cruciatus Curse is very pleasant,right?so did the bruises & purple slashes,they're funny,right? I don't care if u keep ignoring my comment & think I'm stupid,I don't care & will keep writing as long as I need.

Sophia21 @haropuff im not underestimating teens this days, im overestimating them by considering they read HP instead of simply going to the cinema. besides not only teens read harry potter. when i read the first book i was, um, 8-10 years old, i cant remember. now: 4) there's a difference between giving a message and sheer stupidity. letting the bad guys live because you are a good person that gives second chances and then those guys go and destroy entire cities, and even yet you still want them to be repented its dumb. its the same as saying hitler deserves a second chance, would you say that to the families of all the people who lost someone they loved because of him? 6) again, its sheer stupidity. rebellion would be what happened after Harry arrived to hogwarts, teachers kicked Snape and the carriers out of hogwarts and organized a resistance. posting wallpapers of "voldemort suxs" is not a rebellion, its typical adolescent thinking that they can get away with such petty things. @bookaholic edited that, im not a native speaker so dont be too harsh on my grammar mistakes ^_^u @XDRoseLuvsHP well truth be told i don't like any of them. I used to like Harry Potter till it became merchandised, affecting the books, specially the last one where certain aspects where fitted in in order to please the fanbase. Though I still prefer Harry Potter over Twilight, mainly because at least it respects the structure novels should have of introduction->conflict->resolution, whereas Twilight's structure consists of introduction->gibberish->last pages of anticlimatic selfresolving conflict. besides Rowling at least knows how to write, whereas just a few lines into Twilight you come across this: "And I never looked a free truck in the mouth — or engine." seriously, that phrase will haunt me for the rest of my life, I wouldn't be surprised if an enemy wrote it on my tomb. and sometimes I get the feeling Meyer loathes being born a woman by the things she writes.

Sophia21 lol, It kinda hurts me that the only part of all I said that got to you was the old naked man. It's an example! The bad message Harry Potter gives is "trust people even if they look fishy". Some people might be like Snape, but others just might be up to no good and looks can completely tell them off, like drug addict mugglers. and about the Hitler stuff, a lot of people who were not affected simply stood by. USA didnt even get involved in the conflict until it directly affected it. And the people who were not affected that stood up against Hitler certainly did not go around shouting "Hitler suxs". they organized in resistences, gave shelter to people that needed it. Standing up and voicing your opinion does give people hope. But when you are publicly shot down for that, it takes hope just as rapidly, despite Hollywood constantly showing the opposite thing. now on the pettigrew stuff. the whole thing is flawed. They say they can't kill him cause then there will be no way to prove that Sirius is innocent. What the...? hold your horses there, as far as people are concerned, Sirius blew up a whole street, leaving only Pettigrew's finger. Even if they kill him, his body is there to prove that he escaped and was not blown up! He is older than when sirius supposedly killed him. Ok, lets be good and let him leave so that his soul is kissed right out of him. Why couldn't sirius or lupin put a stronger spell on him? Like nagini's cage for example. there harry and everyone dropped the ball with catastrophic results. stupidity is stupidity and it's unexcusable in this circumstance.

XDRoseLuvsHP Actually, I have to argue that point. Harry never did trust Snape, even though he turned out to be protecting Harry the whole time. Voldemort trusted nobody, which really hurt him, but the one person he did find himself trusting - Snape - turned out to be the one not to trust. You do have to be careful about who you trust. Look at Pettigrew. The other three trusted him completely, but he betrayed them. Nobody ever trusted him again after that (except perhaps the Death Eaters, and even they never really trusted him as anything more than a coward). Dumbledore believed in "innocent until proven guilty", which is good. The only person he was shown to have trusted who he really shouldn't have is Grindelwald. However, I believe (though I am not certain) that Dumbledore had an affair with Grindelwald, so this may affect his judgement. Dumbledore never trusted Voldemort, and he was right for it. I'm not sure where all the Hitler stuff started, nor am I quite certain of how it is relating to Harry Potter in this particular conversation, but I'm too lazy to go check back now, so I'm just not going to comment further than this on that matter. I think the problem with the Pettigrew stuff is that they will certainly test Sirius's wand, will they not? They may just come to the conclusion that Pettigrew managed to escape somehow, but Sirius caught up to him again and killed him. If they had managed to bring Pettigrew back to the castle alive, however, they may question as to why Sirius didn't kill him. Then they would reinvestigate, maybe give Pettigrew some Veritesierum this time in order to be more careful, then see Sirius is innocent after all. (I've thought a lot about this. Haha :D) As to why Harry would be back with Sirius unharmed, well, Snape wants revenge on Sirius, and he seemed to convince Fudge that Harry was under a spell to confuse him and give him the wrong conclusions easily enough. As to why Sirius and Lupin didn't place stronger magic upon Pettigrew, well, I suppose they just didn't expect all the complications. Pettigrew was never supposed to be a particularly strong wizard, so it shouldn't have been much trouble... if it weren't a night of the full moon. I have got to say, you make very good arguments. :D

KatiiCullen94 omg the lenght pf your rpy are just so long that im worried....

haropuff95 are u talking to me?whats up?

Sophia21 sorry i will not be replying for some time. flook.com advertisings on this site are driving me mad >.<

Amy3422  I am impressed that everyone's made such a good argument! I agree with almost all of them. However, I can't help adding my opinion on #5, where it says that the books give the message that "school is a waste of time" and that Hogwarts does not play a strong part. I believe just the opposite. Most of the series revolves around Hogwarts school, which is revered as the place where all British witches and wizards are educated and prepared for the world. It is Harry's home for six years, provides the backdrop for most of the story, and is were the series ends. The final fight is both a battle between good and evil, and a fight for Hogwarts. It is also symbolic of everything the characters learn over the course of their lives, both inside the classroom and independently. Hogwarts is shown in a very idealistic manner in this series. The most powerful wizard in the world (Dumbledore) chose to become headmaster there, and most of the professors there are very intelligent and significant characters, who are looked up to by there students. In fact, many of the closest relationships in the series are student/teacher relationships, involving the passing on of knowledge. (Think of Harry and Dumbledore's meetings in HBP.)I thinks that most of the teachers and students are teaching and studying, because they believe in learning, which makes Hogwarts far less superficial than some of the other institutions I've seen. Also, we do see the characters studying quite a bit, after the 1st book, (homework, OWLs etc.) and a large amount of what they learn is important to them, when faced with dangerous situations. Although it's true that we hear more about the spells they learn in first year (after all, that's when the reader is given their first impression of what the school is like), the characters visibly learn more and become more powerful as the series continues. The summoning charm (Accio) is learned in charms class and proves to be very important. Some spells, such as 'Expecto Patronum, Stupefy, or Impedimenta' are learned outside of class, but all are learned in a school environment. Lupin gave Harry lessons to ward off dementors, and Harry does extra work (helped by Hermione's research in the school library) to learn quite a few important spells, in order to complete the third task, and to survive later in the series. I find it rare that any series shows such a strong connection between schoolwork and surviving in the outside world. Also, Harry, Ron, and Hermione were not happy about leaving in their 7th year. Harry had no choice, because he knew that he was the only one who could defeat Voldemort, that he would be killed if he went back, and because he cared about the safety of the people around him. Ron and Hermione decided to leave, in order to help him. If they hadn't Hogwarts would eventually have been destroyed and hundreds of people would have continued to die. All three of them are good students, although Harry and Ron are not perfect and react in the same way to having a lot of schoolwork as most students would. Hermione is virtually obsessed with schoolwork and is one of the most admirable characters. Many of the adult characters (Sirius, Lupin, & the four oldest Weasleys)look back fondly on Hogwarts and seem to miss it very much. Yes, there are Fred and George, but they are still respectful of the school, and given their characters, it would be unrealistic for them to be especially motivated to study. In my opinion, the story of Hogwarts is just as important to the series as the story of good and evil. It is such an emotional place for the characters, and so much is learned there that I strongly doubt that most readers would get anything but a good message about education from these books.

Bookaholics No offense meant, I just thought you might like to know. I'd be interested to hear your response to my other points.

Sophia21 wha o.o? *checks back top of page* oh right, lol, must have forgotten. 1)Well, Dumbledore's convenient plot saves him in a way. In fact you gave me the tip of another argument. When to thinking department we come, Harry had little participation. The whole final confrontation is orchestrated by Dumbledore who left Harry the bread crumbles. Sure he came up with plans to infiltrate the minister and gringotts (helped by Hermione), but all the time they were relaying on Dumbledore's clues. No initiative, just wait for things to turn out for the best. 2) my complain here is the excessive evil decoration that the evil guys are given. An evil guy can live in a white house (omg, lol) or be quite charming looking (whoever says Edward gets a sucker punch =D). In HP however the most spookiest looking guy is portrayed to have a big heart and/or some good intentions within. In reality most of the times if he looks spooky he must be up to no good. Specially in my country (Argentina), I think this is important to mention. Depending on the social reality of who reads the book, does its interpretation change. 3. yes I know it doesn't say she made the right choice. What i demand here is fair treatment. In Twilight everyone hates Bella cause she used Jacob and left him heartbroken, turning him into an evil pedo; whereas in Harry Potter Lily cannot forgive Snape thus severing the only thread that hanged Snape to um, goodhood? 4. Discussed enough already 5. I have a long reply for this one, but im sleepy. tomorrow i promise i will edit it =) 6. Again, as I said, there's a different between voicing your opinions, and signing in for the slaughter house. Annoying criminals, despite Hollywoods constantly telling us that kids have the power, will not end up well for you or your loved ones. One can voice their opinions while being smart.

nessienjake everyone in here just loves to write long messajes!! :DD

XDRoseLuvsHP nessienjake: Yep! Long messages are fun XD It's true about Dumbledore. But it does still take some skill to be able to go through with Dumbledore's plans! They also did take some initiative, but a lot of it was like you said. Either way, most people couldn't have done what they did. Actually, Tom Riddle is supposed to be extremely handsome (before he turned all snake-faced of course, lol). It also depends on the type of "creepy". I find there are different types. Some can turn out to be good, but others you stay away from. It all depends. Actually, everyone automatically forgives Bella for everything she does in Twilight. Lily leaving Snape actually led him to make his final decision in becoming a Death Eater. It was her death that turned him over. Lily left him because he was really jerkish to her and especially to her friends. Bella left Jacob because Edward was hotter. That's the difference. I agree with number 4. Discussed enough. It's kind of a political thing. I'll wait for your reply to 5. It did not end up well for the kids. They had to go into hiding after being tortured and abused. I don't really think that torture is something to be ill considered. Besides, they did try to do something with Neville, Ginny and Luna (the worst of the bunch), but Snape, being Headmaster, didn't really punish them. Snape had control over the Carrows seeing as he was one of Voldemort's favorites. He forbade the Carrows to kill (though the Carrows were quite ready to). :D

Sophia21 a quick reply before answering point 5 @XDRoseLuvsHP every person who has (had the misfortune of) read(ing) Twilight that is not an "Edward luvz swoon hawt" girl hates Bella for being such an ass. Of course meyer realized this midway through Eclipse and decided to turn Jacob into a greater ass hoping to compensate. now about point 5 I had a lots of stuff in my head and I regret not posting it the other night, cause some of them kinda slipped my mind xD. I have been rereading all the books (to my eternal embarrasment I reread the philosopher's stone in under 2 hours, I feel like a hardcore fan lol)and some new stuff caught my attention and I forgot the old one. I will write them as soon as I remember them, lol.

XDRoseLuvsHP Lol, that is true, a lot of fans don't like Bella. I meant the characters, though. Sorry for the confusion. The only ones who don't like Bella are Lauren and Jessica, and they are shown to be shallow bitchy complainers because of that, and I think that is really unfair. Rosalie didn't like Bella either, and she was seen as being a shallow bitchy complainer as well, but the moment her opinion of Bella changes, she is automatically the good guy. Haha, that happens to me all the time, where I have really good ideas about something but when it comes time to say/write them, I forget them, lol.

Free_Spirit That was very well written, and i haven't read the comments but i know soe people are going to contradict you. Anti twilighters its basically the same as all the why edward cullen is a spouse abuser type articles, though this one is better posed. Though i do have one contradiction, (not meaning to be hypocritical) When Lily choose's James it is because she see's that Snape is changing, calling her a mudblood for one and i think that she got very offended at that. Also with the schools not important. Yes that message can be given that school is not impotant but also maybe that sometimes there are things more important in life than just knowledge Other than that you did a reallly good article

Mrs-Grint My index finger hurts from scrolling down here so much. XD

ToyletGnome 1. If you have friends or people that care about you, there's no need for you to have skills. Just let them sacrifice themselves. Harry was never happy to have someone sacrifice their life for him. a) Lily was protecting her defenceless 1-year-old son, this one hardly counts. b) Cedric doesn't count at all as he had no idea of what was going on at the time and was only killed because Voldemort is, ruthless, evil and didn't need him there. c) The people who did or were willing to take a bullet (or a killing curse, as the case may be) for Harry did so, not for Harry, but to protect their loved ones and fight for a cause that was greater than any of them. One thing we can see is that death is painful for those who were close. Harry suffers as his protectors, parental figures and friends are killed or tortured for him. Also, Harry was skilled enough to get an Outstanding on his DADA OWL. He was determined to gain qualifications to become an auror so he could fight dark wizards to the best of his ability. As we see in most of his major fights, there is no one to save him. When he faces Voldemort in 1,2,4 and the final duel in 7, there's nobody to save him. He was also on his own in 3 fighting that swarm of dementors. Sirius was a bit busy getting his soul sucked out of him and Hermione didn't know how to cast a patronus, Harry had to rely on skill and instinct. You should also remember that one of Harry's last acts in DH is sacrificing himself, the way others did for him, so Voldemort could finally be killed. Skills are important but other things are too. It wasn't until he was on his own, nobody to help him, that he finally defeated Voldemort. 2. The evil guy, who has evil black hair, lives in an evil dungeon and is head of an evil fraternity might turn to have a heart and be a good guy. Okay, so your argument here is that the ugly guy is obviously evil but Harry Potter says otherwise. The entire point of this was that you shouldn't judge based on appearances... and since when did black hair = evil? Harry has black hair. It also teaches that the world is not black and white. Each person has the ability to be either 'good' or 'bad' but it is their actions that dictate the kind of person they are. 3. Marry the charming douchebag, forever dooming the guy that had feelings for you. Snape was truly in love with Lily but love isn't something us mere mortals have a choice over. Lily didn't return his feelings and, due to Snape's interest in the dark arts, he lost her as a friend as well. While it is annoying that she ended up marrying the class dickhead, this whole subplot is meant to teach a lesson. Love doesn't always go both ways. It is never guaranteed that the one you love will love you back and the resulting heartbreak can be tragic. 4. Everyone deserves a second chance. Just remind me when Harry had the chance to off Bella. I can't quite recall any of the situations where he had an advantage over her and could've killed her. Pettigrew was a completely different case. He was only with Voldemort because he was weak, afraid and couldn’t stand up for himself. Harry spared his life because with him dead, Sirius could never be freed and the dementor's kiss would've been a fate worse than death anyway. 5. School is a waste of time. It won't help you in real life. Untrue. Fred and George left the school because they were very gifted businessmen, had money to start a shop and were successful in their sales around Hogwarts already. They were already quite intelligent and knew that there was nothing else they could learn to help them with their chosen career path. Draco wasn't going to go back to school because his family was rich enough to begin with and he was under pressure as a Death Eater. Harry, Ron and Hermione’s reason for dropping out wasn’t because they didn’t value their education. After Dumbledore's death, Harry knew Voldemort would finally make a move and Hogwarts would no longer be safe. Harry would've had to face Voldemort in an impossible battle, already knowing that he was fighting an immortal man. The decision to go back to school was cemented when they introduced Snape as headmaster (still thinking he was a Death Eater), Voldemort took over the ministry and the muggle-borns’ were banned. Harry and Hermione COULDN’T go back and Ron, being their best friend would hardly have been treated well in a Death Eater run school. They rely on the skills learned in school to destroy evil , if they’d never gone to school they wouldn’t have stood a chance. 6. Teenagers, you have DA POWER! When Neville, Luna and Ginny try goading the Death Eaters they were obviously confusing courage with stupidity. The reason they were tortured, rather than killed, was because they were all pure bloods; Voldemort would have thought of it as an unnecessary waste. The Carrows were not the most intelligent of people. It only makes sense that the students would be the end of them as they were completely HORRIBLE to the students. This shows that children and teenagers aren’t completely useless or defenceless, in an extreme situation they sometimes must rise to do an adult’s job. I find the whole concept incredibly sad and disturbing that these teenagers are forced to give up their childhood and take on the responsibilities of adulthood. This isn’t portrayed as a good thing. The number of hardships they have to go through is something nobody would ever want to face. I think this argument has taken everything shown in Harry Potter and pushed it to the very limits of reality. The messages you’ve chosen to see in the series, I think, are misinterpreted completely. In your Twilight argument the messages are so true it’s not funny but these are so deep beneath the surface, they don’t really exist. By taking any of these out of the context of the story, of course they’re going to sound bad. The difference is that this series actually has morals.

Sophia21 im discontinuing overview of this article. im having so much fun with the error ones right now =)

ronald_weasley 1. Harry did not want anyone to sacrifice themselves. his mother did, however harry did not ask her to. dobby's death was not a sacrifice it was murder, bellatrix murdered him. cedric didn't sacrifice himself, he was killed. other people faught against voldemort because they wanted a better world to live in, they weren't sacrificing themselves. 2. i don't know about everyone else, but i personally never felt snape was evil, unfair and biased, yes but never fully evil, except for a while when he killed dumbledore. 3. snape insulted lily and he was into the dark arts, she would never have married him. she didn't even know he had any feelings for her. james had feelings for lily and he stopped beingh so arrogant when he got older. 4. i think every one does deserve a second chance but second chances can only be given to people who feel that they've done something wrong. harry didn't let pettigrew go he escaped. he didn't want lupin and sirius to become murderers and so he could prove that pettigrew is alive and set sirius free. and he could never have killed bellatrix, it's not that easy to kill someone, especially if your 15. he wanted to cause bellatrix pain because she killed sirius he was acting out of greif and anger. 4. hogwarts played a very important role in harry potter. some of the spells they learned outside thier lessons, however most of them were learned in class. 5. the carrows first if all are not two brothers, they're brother and sister (that explains how well you read the book) and the carrows are taken down by prof. mcgonagal. the carrows don't kill neville, luna etc. because they don't want to spill magical blood. and they were not slightly injured, most of rthem were bruised beyond recegnition.

hrrypttrfn328 I am in love with this series (metaphorically) but can still appreciate a person's opinion. I do not have the hour that it would take to read through all these previous posts, so I apologize in advance if this was already brought up: 1. The books do not promote this idea, since Harry goes out of his way to prevent it from happening. It is shown as a bad thing when you are the indirect cause of another's pain or death. 2. Snape is no saint. He is still a very flawed character, but no one after the first book really believed him to be EVIL!!!! RUN AWAY!!!! He saved Harry's life. 3. Snape was becoming someone Lily could not in good conscience continue to associate with. She fell in love with James a good bit of time after that. He realized he was an asshole and made a character change for the better. She saw this and became closer to him, willing to forgive his previous douchbaggery. 4. Yes they do. There is nothing wrong with 2nd chances. 5. I think it is more that there is something more important at that time. School is not unimportant, only not crucial to the main story line. We do not see what goes on in every single lesson, so one can not presume that they learn nothing. 6. This one I do not mind as much, but teens really DO have the ability to change the world if they choose to do so. And as a last note, Amycus and Alecto Carrow are actually brother and SISTER. Seeing as, on more than one occasion Alecto is referred to as Amycus' SISTER. And Alecto is a female name. Little things bug me more than big things, so no offense meant. Overall, I like that fact that you post your opinion in this section even among the very strong sway that occurs here. Thank you for an interesting read. :)

HecateA Hi! 1- Harry pulls the plug and goes in the forest because of all the deaths. The regret is eating the guy alive, thus making him end it even when everyone else says "dont do it" 2 - Not everyone had a good side. Sure some people felt bad for the poor londonian orphan, but that doesn't mean we think he has a good side. And msot of us do consider Voldemort human, because human blood runs threw his veins no matter what he does. 3 - Lily hated James when she stopped being friends with Snape. She hated James more. But he made up for the things he did, Snape didn't, and I am pretty sure that he did more. Remember the mention to Mary McDonald, the Gryffindor? 4 - Harry gave 2nd chances according to the person. Bellatrix = no second chance because of the Longbottoms and Sirius. Pettigrew= no 2nd chance either because he killed his parents and caused an innocent man to be sent to Azkaban for life. He didn't let Remus and Sirius kill him because he didnt want them to bemurderrs. But I agree with you Sophia, how did Lupin nto know it was the full moon? If I was a werewolf, I'd make it my business to know when the full moon is. Anyways it was an interesting read, thnak you for it.

VampPhoenix99 YOU ARE ONE OF THE BIGGEST F*CKING TROLLS ON THE INTERNET. And I`m pretty sure no teenager is going to take Harry Potter, a fantasy genre book about f*cking wizards, seriously in real life. Find better things to do than to troll about stupid sh*t. Also, Harry Potter saves the world once a year for seven years. People are gonna f*cking protect him.

VampPhoenix99 Don`t portray people who die to save what is close to them as "stupid" or wrong. They are the brave ones. And Twilight`s even more f*cked up in that way. In Harry Potter, people die to stop the evil from destroyng the world. In Twilight, people die to stop their own petty pain. And you should see hp 7-2. It`s out by now, and I certainly think it shows the whole perspective better than you think you do.